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Thread: Is the White Birth Rate Too Low to Sustain Our Civilisation?

  1. #21
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    Posted by Quo vadis
    My answer would be that your existence is threatened
    1. because all Germanic peoples, except some subgroups like the Mormons and the Amish, have been having fertility rates below replacement level for several decades now. That alone would already kill us unless this trend was reversed. And quality is going down, too, because the more creative and intelligent of our own breed even less.
    2. because we are in a struggle against other peoples over territory (Lebensraum). But this aspect is admittedly more complicated because, currently, most Germanic people do not support or even oppose the nationalist forces fighting for them. So we are threatened both by external enemies and by the treacherousness of many of our own.

    How will having more children combat this?
    Isn't it true, that - all other factors remaining the same - the higher our number, the more powerful our forces are? Be it in war, in elections or in the realm of spreading ideas.

    If you disagree, can you elaborate extensively, why - all other factors remaining the same - higher numbers would not help us in our struggle for existence?
    1. So it is safe to say, that because the numbers of an outside people are increasing, we must do likewise. Are we to act in the manner of invaders then? Like colonists? Procreation is no substitute for defensive measures.

    2. The host, in many ways, has no interest in the level of attack and no will to fight it or aid those who would. In short they are action-less.

    3. Numbers alone, guarantee nothing. There was a very healthy and vibrant Germanic population in America and Europe as recent as 60 years ago. Clearly, these great numbers did little to solidify the folkish spirit then and I suspect that the same would be true today. Today, we are faced with factors that are highly undesirable to the advancement and survival of our people. These factors must change, not stay the same.

    Our outlook must change, instead of focusing on the actions of others, we need to live the lives that we envision. Banks have power because we give it to them. Governments abuse their power because we let them. The media controls our people because we allow it. Take all their power away, and they are nothing but human. When we stop playing the victim to destiny we will become it's master.

    This is the stance I advocate. Quality over quantity. Having large families will do nothing to help us if they do not grow to become mighty in their own accord.

    It seems to me that they bred both quantity and quality.
    The two can not be wed in unity. You either sacrifice quality to produce quantity or you strive for quantity at the expense of quality. I know of no instance in the real (imperfect) world this is not true. I see no reason why it would not apply to family life as well. I will agree, that it is a high priority for families able to have many children to do so, as long as they can provide them with the necessary space and education and as long as the focus is on quality.

    Aren't there many counterexamples of peoples who fought outside threats ferociously in spite of (or even because of?) living in a densely populated country? I am thinking of Germany during the world wars and Japan.
    You are right, such, countries were largely warrior based societies at the time. There was an emphasis on military might and it was instilled in the youth at a young age. Naturally, these countries also had outside enemies that were the nation's chief threat. The people were also unified with a common bond and destiny. When this is the case, then the nation can act as a unified body. At this stage, the emphasis should be on quality over quantity, to produce an elite fighting unit.

    The only time a people can rightfully sacrifice quality is during times of colonization or to avoid extinction. Yet it is a risk that will bear with it future consequence.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindefense View Post
    The two can not be wed in unity. You either sacrifice quality to produce quantity or you strive for quantity at the expense of quality.
    There is no quality without quantity. In nature, the quality of a life is decided after it is born, the quality of unborn life is not measurable. We has humans can set parameters for unwanted life, but within, quantity is the way to go to achieve quality.
    Not to mention that a high amount of quality is still quality, in high quantity, there is always room for improvement, and quality is relative, thus such an absolute remark of yours is simply wrong.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  3. #23
    Senior Member Quo vadis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindefense View Post
    1. So it is safe to say, that because the numbers of an outside people are increasing, we must do likewise. Are we to act in the manner of invaders then? Like colonists? Procreation is no substitute for defensive measures.
    I never said it was. But our governments are not taking defensive measures and here and now it is not in your and my power to change that. Meanwhile we must plan for the future.

    2. The host, in many ways, has no interest in the level of attack and no will to fight it or aid those who would. In short they are action-less.

    3. Numbers alone, guarantee nothing. There was a very healthy and vibrant Germanic population in America and Europe as recent as 60 years ago. Clearly, these great numbers did little to solidify the folkish spirit then and I suspect that the same would be true today. Today, we are faced with factors that are highly undesirable to the advancement and survival of our people. These factors must change, not stay the same.

    Our outlook must change, instead of focusing on the actions of others, we need to live the lives that we envision. Banks have power because we give it to them. Governments abuse their power because we let them. The media controls our people because we allow it. Take all their power away, and they are nothing but human. When we stop playing the victim to destiny we will become it's master.
    When you say "we", you seem to include the dumb or misled, nationally and racially unaware masses, whereas, when I say "we", I am referring to you and me and like-minded people who care about Germanic preservation, like us in this forum. How many are we? Not many, maybe a few hundred thousand worldwide, maybe even less. It's the masses who let their governments abuse them and the hostile mass media control their minds, and exactly for this reason we should not align our behavour with what they do.

    The two can not be wed in unity. You either sacrifice quality to produce quantity or you strive for quantity at the expense of quality. I know of no instance in the real (imperfect) world this is not true. I see no reason why it would not apply to family life as well.
    [...]
    I will agree, that it is a high priority for families able to have many children to do so, as long as they can provide them with the necessary space and education and as long as the focus is on quality.
    Aren't you contradicting yourself here? First you say that it is impossible to have both many and quality children, but then you advocate exactly that. What is your stance now? I know personally a father of 8 children, and as far as I can tell, all his children have grown to become healthy and capable German people. He proves that one can indeed raise many children of high quality and take good care of them.

    But his is a very rare case, on average the fertility rate of Germans in Germany has been around 1.2-1.3 for almost 40 years now. Our people are literally facing extinction. When I say that we should have more children, I am not addressing the masses, as I can't influence their reproductive behaviour anyway. First, they don't listen to me, and second, they don't care about Germanic preservation in the first place. Nothing that you and me and like-minded people do can prevent that the numbers of our people will continue to decline sharply for a very long time, but we can do our best to make at least a small remnant of our people survive the end of this century. These would be our very descendants and we have to do our best to make up for all the children not had by the masses.

    But what hope is there if even we, who do care about Germanic preservation, can't agree that it is necessary to have many children?

    The only time a people can rightfully sacrifice quality is during times of colonization or to avoid extinction. Yet it is a risk that will bear with it future consequence.
    I do not advocate sacrificing quality. What i advocate is the same as you just did, in the last sentence of what I quoted from your post before, plus that the community should do its best to support the parents as good as possible in order to make this task actually possible for them.

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    Posted by Jager:
    There is no quality without quantity. In nature, the quality of a life is decided after it is born, the quality of unborn life is not measurable. We has humans can set parameters for unwanted life, but within, quantity is the way to go to achieve quality.
    Not to mention that a high amount of quality is still quality, in high quantity, there is always room for improvement, and quality is relative, thus such an absolute remark of yours is simply wrong.
    OK, You are right to a degree, and so am I.

    Posted by Quo vadis
    When you say "we", you seem to include the dumb or misled, nationally and racially unaware masses, whereas, when I say "we", I am referring to you and me and like-minded people who care about Germanic preservation, like us in this forum.
    Yes, I speak of our people as a whole. Those who care and are worthy will include themselves, those who do not exclude themselves. This is the point of my argument, quality before quantity. Quality individuals, as a collected body, can achieve much more in the face of adversity.

    Aren't you contradicting yourself here? First you say that it is impossible to have both many and quality children, but then you advocate exactly that. What is your stance now?
    Are you sure I said this? All I said, was that you can not achieve both without consequence. If the consequence sacrifices one for the other, then more effort is required. This applies to the particular question of demographic numbers, which the video implies is too low among whites in general. My stance has been constant in this regard. I am for thinning the forest to let the Oaks grow.

    I do not advocate sacrificing quality. What i advocate is the same as you just did, in the last sentence of what I quoted from your post before, plus that the community should do its best to support the parents as good as possible in order to make this task actually possible for them.
    OK, we agree then. My intent in these posts is to point out that having many children alone is not enough, they must become quality individuals. To what degree, this is possible depends largely on the circumstances of the parents.

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    Here is an article that makes similar points to the video.
    The future of our race will be decided by our women and their determination to have children like females are supposed to. The men must do what they can to encourage and help their wives.

    Excerpt:
    Likewise, the salient feature of Europe, Canada, Japan and Russia is that they're running out of babies. What's happening in the developed world is one of the fastest demographic evolutions in history: most of us have seen a gazillion heartwarming ethnic comedies -- My Big Fat Greek Wedding and its ilk -- in which some uptight WASPy type starts dating a gal from a vast loving fecund Mediterranean family, so abundantly endowed with sisters and cousins and uncles that you can barely get in the room. It is, in fact, the inversion of the truth. Greece has a fertility rate hovering just below 1.3 births per couple, which is what demographers call the point of "lowest-low" fertility from which no human society has ever recovered. And Greece's fertility is the healthiest in Mediterranean Europe: Italy has a fertility rate of 1.2, Spain 1.1. Insofar as any citizens of the developed world have "big" families these days, it's the anglo democracies: America's fertility rate is 2.1, New Zealand a little below. Hollywood should be making My Big Fat Uptight Protestant Wedding in which some sad Greek only child marries into a big heartwarming New Zealand family where the spouse actually has a sibling.

    As I say, this isn't a projection: it's happening now.
    http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?c..._134898&source

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    Senior Member Gary in TX's Avatar
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    I actually just watched that youtube video not less than 30 minutes ago (I hadn't seen it before).

    It was sent to me by a family member who usually doesn't even think about this kind of thing. The fact that it was sent to me by him makes me wonder if ordinary people of European heritage are starting to wake up that we're threatened as a people and that our entire civilization and way of life is endangered of becoming extinct.

    To be honest I knew that it was bad in Europe, but not THAT bad.

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    I'll say people are waking up to the demographic crisis but no one has presented a realistic solution. The strength to overcome this issue will have to come from both men and women alike - but that's not happening at the moment. You're average women is still going to continue to pop in birth control pills and get her tubes tied, and you're average man is still going to chase non-white women, use condoms and act like an overgrown kid.

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    Senior Member Gary in TX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatest View Post
    I'll say people are waking up to the demographic crisis but no one has presented a realistic solution. The strength to overcome this issue will have to come from both men and women alike - but that's not happening at the moment. You're average women is still going to continue to pop in birth control pills and get her tubes tied, and you're average man is still going to chase non-white women, use condoms and act like an overgrown kid.
    Yeah, that's certainly true, but the truth still hurts.

    Hopefully people will evetually wake up to this fact and severely restrict immigration into the North America, Europe and into Australia and New Zealand and they'll quit slowly committing racial suicide by doing stupid things and living merely for the moment and doing whatever feels good and is being pushed by the media at that particular point in time.

    It's not going to happen overnight though. Something radical will really have to change to shake up people's thinking (maybe something like a near economic collapse where they no longer have steaks and beer in the fridge, they've had to sell their jet ski to pay the morgage and they lose their job to some illegal immigrant who'll work for $5 an hour).

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