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Thread: Is Japan The Model Economy for Us?

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    Post SPLIT FROM; How much are you willing to Sacrifice for a Nationalist Economy?

    Protectionism, akin to the Japanese economy, isn't that great a difference. With a decent tax system, the population will have enough to save and spend in order to build up a native economy. The United States worked absolutely fine under its protectionism prior to the Free Trade agreements, which stripped the US of its heavy industries. Without the ability to look overseas for cheap labour, companies will invest in labour-saving technology. Which is precisely why the Japanese have the most advanced robotics industry on the planet. If a nationalist state were to be established, the economy model should be Japan, not NS Germany, whose Government definetly overspent, and so required war, increased territory, and incorporated more populations in order to survive economically. We don't need to do that. The Western world (supposing it eventually fixes itself up) has all the resources necessary to survive. Oil from the Arab nations merely stunts the expansion of synthetic replacements. It wouldn't be that bad for us. It might take a few years (under ten) for the Western world to build up its heavy industry again, but we (Westerners/Europeans) would do ok, and definetly be better off in the long run.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, May 20th, 2004 at 06:27 PM. Reason: split thread
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  2. #2
    Senior Member George's Avatar
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    Post Re: How much are you willing to Sacrifice for a Nationalist Economy?

    Protectionism will be useful to us in rebuilding our economies, but we should not get carried away with it, I think that eventually a high level of cooperation between the White countries will be possible and will benefit all more than would protectionism.

    National Socialist Germany was preparing for war from its inception, but a National Socialist government does not have to do this and would function very well I'm sure in a peaceful trading situation, so long as it gradually immersed itself in international markets and did not try to isolate itself too much.

    I don't forsee a problem with the Free West buying oil from Arab countries, there is no need for us to develop alternatives to oil for many years yet and we could buy as much as we might want at reasonable prices when we

    weren't paying big Socialist taxes
    weren't paying incessant war premiums
    weren't trading in currencies that are artificially overvalued or devalued by usurers
    had a closer and less tense relationship between the West and the Arabs which would allow us to invest more money and technology in oil-extraction and refination plants
    weren't competing with huge, fast-growing non-White economies sustained by Whites
    had broken up the big international oligarch syndicates and increased competition in the field
    invested in Siberian oil

    The Japanese economy is not in my opinion a good model for us. Japan has been taken over by American Jews and has had Capitalism foisted upon it, which is a system that fits the Japanese even less well than it fits us. Japan is very overpopulated and has an extreme dearth of natural resources. It has a huge trade surplus and is entirely dependent on American and other foreign markets. The Japanese have much less space or leisure time than Westerners and their costs of living are higher. The Japanese economy actually is suffering from Chinese competition and has been stagnant for several years now. The Japanese banks are always short of capital. The Japanese also have begun to export industry to Third-World south-east Asia. The Japanese mofel is too high-tech and not enough low-tech, such an economy would not provide for our working class and lower-middle class and would cost too much to maintain and move forward (all that high-tech equipment).

    Nazi Germany crossed with the early British Empire (the best elements of both) I think is the best economic model for us

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    Post Re: How much are you willing to Sacrifice for a Nationalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by George
    Protectionism will be useful to us in rebuilding our economies, but we should not get carried away with it, I think that eventually a high level of cooperation between the White countries will be possible and will benefit all more than would protectionism.
    I am speaking of protectionism around a white-European trade block, in relation to the Asian nations and the rest of the world. With the inability of heavy industry to be shipped to China and other third world countries, money would be invested in East Europe (for example), raising their standard of living.

    National Socialist Germany was preparing for war from its inception, but a National Socialist government does not have to do this and would function very well I'm sure in a peaceful trading situation, so long as it gradually immersed itself in international markets and did not try to isolate itself too much.
    There does not need to be an 'international market' save perhaps trade with Japan, a people whom I admire for their strength.

    I don't forsee a problem with the Free West buying oil from Arab countries, there is no need for us to develop alternatives to oil for many years yet and we could buy as much as we might want at reasonable prices when we
    The problem is that Arabs are Muslims and the purpose of Islam is to spread an essentially Arab way of life by way of the book or the sword. There is no reason why we ought to depend on our enemies, and indeed, with synthetic replacements, we will be better off. In any case, there's always the oil in Russia.

    weren't paying big Socialist taxes
    Socialism assumes the primacy of the group over the individual - essentially, that certain barriers may not be breached. Morality is also a form of socialism. Kantian based rule-morality is the most refined ethical socialism in existence. Unless you wish to fund your own security, your own laws and whatever else, you will simply pay taxes.

    weren't paying incessant war premiums
    weren't trading in currencies that are artificially overvalued or devalued by usurers
    Currencies are not based on a solid, unchangable standard. Your currencies are not overvalued or devalued because of merchants and businessmen but because of men in the IMF and the Federal Reserves. These organisations do not have to exist.

    had a closer and less tense relationship between the West and the Arabs which would allow us to invest more money and technology in oil-extraction and refination plants
    We do not need nor should we need to be dependent on Arabs for our economic sustinence. I suggest we leave the Chinese to be slaves to the Arabs with their oil.

    weren't competing with huge, fast-growing non-White economies sustained by Whites
    Government imposed penalties for offshoring would castrate this problem. The Japanese are well-capable of sustaining themselves and the Chinese depend on our investment. With this withdrawn, China is not a threat.

    had broken up the big international oligarch syndicates and increased competition in the field
    Competition simply means the most efficient groups win. When one group abuses its position as the leader in an industry, and another group better able and willing to adapt to the requirements of consumers starts up, capital is shifted to the more efficient and acceptable companies. In a free market, the market adapts like a living organism. The conditions set by the State (protectionism, taxes, etc.) are the environment to which it adapts. The environment must be harsh enough to prevent it from dispersing (see offshoring) and yet not so tight as to murder the entire thing (see USSR). The purpose of the State is to provide a means for distinguishing the rule from the exception, and if an exception is recognised, to make the distinction between friend and enemy and then act on this. It is not to carry out absurd leftist egalitarian dogma. The enemy must be removed or simply rendered impotent. If the enemy includes people who happen to control certain corporations, then it follows that action will be taken.

    invested in Siberian oil
    Infinitely better than the Arabs, which is precisely why we should have protectionism - so we develop our own economy rather than that of another civilization.

    The Japanese economy is not in my opinion a good model for us. Japan has been taken over by American Jews and has had Capitalism foisted upon it, which is a system that fits the Japanese even less well than it fits us.
    The Japanese are prosperous and it works for them. The discipline they possessed from the war greatly assisted them in becoming a major economic power.

    Japan is very overpopulated and has an extreme dearth of natural resources.
    We would have a lot more than they do.

    It has a huge trade surplus and is entirely dependent on American and other foreign markets.
    We would have a large enough internal market.

    The Japanese have much less space or leisure time than Westerners and their costs of living are higher.
    The Japanese have less space simply because they're packed on a tiny section of turf. I have no objections to arming them with nuclear weapons and letting them cut loose at China all over again.

    The Japanese economy actually is suffering from Chinese competition and has been stagnant for several years now. The Japanese banks are always short of capital. The Japanese also have begun to export industry to Third-World south-east Asia. The Japanese mofel is too high-tech and not enough low-tech, such an economy would not provide for our working class and lower-middle class and would cost too much to maintain and move forward (all that high-tech equipment).
    If we got our act together we would wield an empire of 600+ million whites. We can benefit from high-tech industries and I expect we'd carry out our own agriculture. No one will notice particularly if we started offering benefits to high-IQ whites for having more kids, which means we can only develop more technology to be even more efficient. And we still have the infinite realm of space at our disposal, if we can get out of this mess.

    Nazi Germany crossed with the early British Empire (the best elements of both) I think is the best economic model for us
    History does not provide examples for what we're discussing. The top-heavy administration of NS Germany isn't suited towards the lean and sharp economy-state mix we are looking for. Our aim at the moment is not a war orientated total-state, but an aesthetic, efficient, powerful and capable mechanism to protect the European-West cultural bloc and its native populations, and for that to provide architecture, but not the substance (they ought to provide that for themselves), for their development and well-being.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  4. #4
    Senior Member George's Avatar
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    Thumbs Down Re: How much are you willing to Sacrifice for a Nationalist Economy?

    There really, really needs to be an international market, even if all of the White countries are counted as one 'nation'. I have a lot of respect for the Japanese too., but they aren't capable of maintaining themselves at anything close to their present level of economy, technology etc. without White subsidies.

    I think that the inherent aggression and obsession with proselytising of Islam and the Arabs are exaggerated by most people. I think that if we were not controlled by the Jews the Arabs would be more than willing to trade with us in a calm and sensible manner and not attack us.

    The competitive economic situation that you describe is what ought to happen, however big monolithic monopolies are stopping this from happening and always will where they are allowed to form. I don't understand your point about exceptions and rules; please expound.

    I don't think that war-discipline helped the Japanese in rebuilding their economy or expanding it, at a rate higher than the 'background' rate, to a much greater size than it was pre-war. I feel it would be unwise to help Japan to grow stronger, and particularly to help it to establish a big mainland empire.

    I think it will be impossible for many years yet for all Whites to live under one government. That need not stop us from trying though. There are a lot of plants and animals that can only be farmed in regions too hot for Whites to farm in and a lot which it is much more practical to farm there than here, so we should take over those areas and use the non-Whites to farm them, British-Empire style.

    'History does not provide examples for what we're discussing.' - Use your imagination and extrapolate!

    'The top-heavy administration of NS Germany isn't suited towards the lean and sharp economy-state mix we are looking for.' - We shall require such a government to deal with the non-Whites, rebuild and generally put things in order. Later it can gradually back off and become what you describe.

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    Post Re: How much are you willing to Sacrifice for a Nationalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by George
    There really, really needs to be an international market, even if all of the White countries are counted as one 'nation'.
    Why is that? We would wield Siberia and all its resources, Australia, New Zealand, North America, and Europe from the Iberian peninsula to the Urals, from the Arctic circle to the Mediterranean, and the white areas of South America. I fail to see what we would want outside of those territories which we could not make for ourselves.

    I have a lot of respect for the Japanese too., but they aren't capable of maintaining themselves at anything close to their present level of economy, technology etc. without White subsidies.
    Why aren't they? Overpopulation within such a small territory? I admire the Japanese more than the Chinese. I have no objections to the Japanese undergoing total mobilization with the aid of South Korea in order to clean out, say, Manchuria and colonise it with Japanese.

    I think that the inherent aggression and obsession with proselytising of Islam and the Arabs are exaggerated by most people.
    I do not. They have fought our peoples since the beginning of their desert religion and they are going to until they can win. There are pauses but no full-stops. We are the House of War, not the House of Islam, and they consider it holy that the House of Islam expands at the expense of the House of War.

    I think that if we were not controlled by the Jews the Arabs would be more than willing to trade with us in a calm and sensible manner and not attack us.
    Since Byzantium, through the Crusades, their invasions of France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Hungary, Greece, the Balkans, their seizure of Anatolia to the barbary corsairs, to the recent bombing in Spain, they have fought their war against us since the beginning. The only thing that has changed is the balance of power. Israel is a novelty.

    The competitive economic situation that you describe is what ought to happen, however big monolithic monopolies are stopping this from happening and always will where they are allowed to form. I don't understand your point about exceptions and rules; please expound.
    Ok.

    A rule is an enforced code of behaviour. Rules can be defied, but they can simply be backed up with more force until the 'bump' falls into line. The exception is when the authority behind the rule is challenged. The State is this authority, and he who discerns the exception from the rule is the sovereign. The exception is simply that which hinders the authority (psychological), not just the power of the State. When this exception is recognised to exist, the State goes back to its fundamentals, it's purpose - to guard the way of life of its citizens - and from that, it judges its friends (those who are willing to kill, fight and die for the State) and the enemy (those whose death is sanctioned). If Jews are declared by the sovereign as the enemy of the State, whose purpose is to defend the way of life of its people, then action will be taken, to either render them unable to threaten the way of life of the people, or to annihilate them. George, I have, and I am prepared to argue the case that monopolies only exist either as natural monopolies, which means they are spectacular at adapting to market conditions and the desires of consumers, or that they are kept in place by force courtesy of the Government. There is no need for Government intervention other than protectionism.

    I don't think that war-discipline helped the Japanese in rebuilding their economy or expanding it, at a rate higher than the 'background' rate, to a much greater size than it was pre-war.
    Many would disagree. The Japanese adoption of Corporatism was strengthened by their dedication to honour and their own word. Swearing alliegence to the company they worked for and agreeing to work long hours for benefits such as old age pension, medical cover etc., certainly helped the Japanese economy.

    I feel it would be unwise to help Japan to grow stronger, and particularly to help it to establish a big mainland empire.
    Why is that? Do you believe it would be difficult for a Pan-white confederacy, with a centralised military, to flatten any Japanese forces that may threaten it?

    I think it will be impossible for many years yet for all Whites to live under one government. That need not stop us from trying though. There are a lot of plants and animals that can only be farmed in regions too hot for Whites to farm in...
    First point: a pan-white confederation of nations with an internal free trade zone would be enough for the moment. Second point: whites have sun-tan lotion.

    and a lot which it is much more practical to farm there than here, so we should take over those areas and use the non-Whites to farm them, British-Empire style.
    And without a solid revaluation of values, with a solid shift from the universal to the particular, the population of our civilization would fall prey to the idea 'treat others how you want to be treated'. Colonies filled with non-whites are unstable. You'd think we would've learned that from the awakening of India, but obviously not. No, if we're to have colonies, they must be populated with our own people. Apartheid was doomed from the beginning. Simple deportation of non-whites from South Africa and populating it with whites would make it unbreakable. If we don't learn from history, we'll repeat it. You seem to think repeating it is a good idea. I do not.

    'History does not provide examples for what we're discussing.' - Use your imagination and extrapolate!
    It simply does not.

    'The top-heavy administration of NS Germany isn't suited towards the lean and sharp economy-state mix we are looking for.' - We shall require such a government to deal with the non-Whites, rebuild and generally put things in order. Later it can gradually back off and become what you describe.
    We do not need a 'top heavy administration' to solve the non-white problem. What we need is strength of will. Eisenhower did not need a massive bureaucracy for Operation Wetback in which he deported hundreds of thousands of Mexican illegal immigrants from California. And yes, he used the US Army. This was in the 1950's.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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