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Thread: Monarchy!

  1. #31
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    Cool Re: Monarchy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    For that Empery, perhaps our genealogists should find the closest to the line of Charlemagne?

    I believe that the Blood-line itself, and the Role of kingship itself, are far more important than the particular individuals involved [providing they be of the Blood of course]. The institutions themselves are able to survive weak kings, just as they positively thrive under strong kings.

    It MUST be heriditary in basis to be worthy of the name Royal.

    To Earl Jack; I am not for a Christian Monarchy as such; the kingly line of Europe goes back far beyond the introduction of Christianity; indeed, I believe that the Royal culture merely assimilated the Christian and is redolent far more of paganism in its essence.

    To Earl Rodskarl; To me Monarchy is about an unbroken chain of inheritance and heritage going back into the mists of time. The English Royal line may properly go back to Woden, but then Woden, as Snorri said, was one of the Aesir and so from Asia as the name suggests.
    To me, ultimately the Line goes back to the original Aryas - it was their gift to us.

    To Earl KoolKalm; I agree with what you say about the American renegades and their traitorship toward the Crown [and they are paying for that].
    As far as Britain is concerned though, I think that we may have to go back to the Tudor line as the present 'Windsors' [actually Saxe-coburg-Gotha] have presided over race-treason in the Realm.


    Back to the Tudors
    Why Charlemagne? I agree, he seems a bridge between Nordic(Vanir) and Germanic(Aesir) peoples. Freyr(Franken) and Freyja(Frankrik) were an adaptation to Ing(Angeln) and Frigg(Fryslan). Since Vanic Freyr and Freyja were part of the Aesir, the Franks seem in the middle. But then again, Vanic Njord of Norway was part of the Aesir also. Ing/Yngvi is a name never associated to the Aesir. Strange.

    Ok, so you believe a Welshman belongs on the throne? Then that would mean the English get kicked out to Angeln in Schleswig, eh? Woden was king of the Jutes or Geats/Goths, not of the English, who was Ing or Yngvi of the Ynglinga Saga. I don't like Woden per se. The Aesir derive their name from the world Ash tree, not Asia, which is an entirely different name source. Ask or Yggdrasil. Then you must question yourself on who are the Vanir? I profess a chiefly Vanir background, secondarily Aesir.

    I do not believe in Aryan background for myself. I am no fan of Persia, India or Aryana. To hell with those snobbish Hindus who made cattle the mainstay of agriculture. I don't like the taste of beef or it's milk. I do not buy it.
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, May 25th, 2004 at 06:23 PM. Reason: removed obscenity

  2. #32
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    Post Re: Monarchy!

    To Rodskarl;



    Most are aware of the above close cognates - close because they are relatively recent in time in terms of their small divergence.
    And more;



    This parity is not a 'belief', but a FACT! And it is beyond the particular tastes of individuals whoever they may be.

    As to the importance of Woden for the English;

    "The East Saxon royal genealogy is unique of all Anglo-Saxon royal pedigrees because the Kings of Essex claimed descent from the god Seaxnet and not WODEN AS IS MORE USUAL".
    [See this link for full article;]
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ww2/A923474

    There is a lineal descent from Woden to the present Monarch, Queen Elizabeth II.

    It is Snorri who gives us details of the Aesir and the Vanir which we do not have from any other source. He deliberately links the Aesir with Asia which is not far-fetched as we now know about the self-explanatory Eurasian connections of Indo-European culture. Also, the Aryan homeland is thought by most analysts to have been in the East.
    The similarities between the Vedic gods and the Norse gods is just another example.
    I take the Vanir to represent the pre-Aryan Old Europeans who merged with the invading Aryans [from the East], or Aesir.

    The Tudors were of Welsh descent, but they were thoroughly British as their lineage shows. Henry was the father of our greatest Queen, of course;



    The Tudor system is the closest to a desired British national polity from the kingly past.

    Charlemagne is an example of a pan-European Emperor whose death was followed by the break-up of that entity; by repairing his line we could re-constitute that Imperium.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  3. #33
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    Post Re: Monarchy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkin
    LOL! :eyes
    Excuse Rubsharal; he's all worked up about some conspiracy theory he concocted about his (Upper Paleolithic?) people having an inferiority complex and trying to emulate "Eastern people," "Southern people" and "Levantines."

  4. #34
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    Post Re: Monarchy!

    Moody:
    The Angles, Saxons and Jutes are from two different backgrounds, each having their own deity.

    Ing(Angel) for the Angles. (british gentry)
    Seaxnot(?Saxonette?) for the Saxons. (british nobility)
    Woden(God) is for the Jute people. (british royalty)

    Woden's wife was queen of the Frisians, Frigg. Freyja's(queen of Franks) husband was Odr(of the Gotar-Geats in Gotaland). See the connection?

    I admit, I wonder about the connection between Vedism and Woden. As far as I know, Wotan means "wode" meaning "odd" and "good". "Water" is another name and I suspect their symbol is a water-well like the one Woden drank from. Odin's name is the source of "God" and he is the "god" of "wisdom" and "wizard"s, but also of Giants. Consider that Woden's people only had Kent, Wight and Hampshire without any specific allusion to their Jute tribe and you will see what I mean on the subtlety of Woden's influence in Britain, except perhaps religion??? However, the Jutes had been absorbed by the Saxons as their chief centre of focus in the southeast. This is reflected in the Confederacy of America. The Angles in the Union wanted to be the bosses that time.

    I do not want a Jutish or Saxon king. I am somewhat ok with the idea of an English king. I suppose it's all up to our heritage. I have no direct Salic Law primogeniture peerage blood, just gentry. My forefathers never had peasantry to look after. They had yeomanry rent their land though. I can see this well enough when I look at the placename of my genes.

    Flags for vague generalities of centralism and occupied states:

    pre-Theodoric Ing's/Ynglings' [Wain] landschaft Angeln or Angelland in Slesvig today. Saxons had a place called Saxland. Jutes in Juteland. Before this time, heathen symbols were non-crest nor cross. Each tribe had own arms/standard/banner with different symbol. For the English, I believe it was an anchor/hook, for "angling"(fishing-navy people). For the Saxons, a sword/dagger, I believe, the "seax"(farming-army people). I suppose the Jute symbol to be water, after all, Jute and "wet" are of the same etymology. Jutes of Jutland/Jylland are the closest of the three to have kinship with Odin, as the Jotun of Jotunheim(Freyr's wife Gerd was Jotun{Ymir was ice-frozen water}). The Geatish Gotar of Gotaland in Southern Sweden to be closer, by the name of Odr(Freyja's husband). The Gutnisk Goths of Gotland to be directly descended from Odin(Frigg's husband).

    post-invasion Angles [Evangelic Christian] England, Strathclyde

    post-viking Saxons [Greek Orthodox] Wessex, Cornwall

    post-norman William's/Plantagenet's/Roses's [Roman Catholic] England, Normandy-Aquitaine

    Tudor's [Anglican Reformation] England, Wales

    Stuart's [Puritan Enlightenment] England, Scotland

    Hanover's [Protestant Denominations] England, Scotland, Ireland
    Last edited by Rodskarl Dubhgall; Wednesday, May 26th, 2004 at 03:58 AM.

  5. #35
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    Lightbulb Re: Monarchy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodskarl Dubhgall
    I don't substantiate any connections between the oriental mythos and occidental cultures. The western people were bored and unmotivated by their native culture and sought "spice" by adding false links between themselves and the east. This is a well known problem throughout European history.
    To clarify, I don't believe they were bored and unmotivated, but they sure as hell weren't defending themselves adequately to the invasions that reshaped their cultural landscape with newer leaders who were puppet kings for those more southeastern. Perhaps the leaders were the ones intolerant and unreceptive to local culture.

  6. #36
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    Post Re: Monarchy!

    Rodskarl Dubhgall; "The Angles, Saxons and Jutes are from two different backgrounds, each having their own deity. Ing(Angel) for the Angles. (british gentry) Seaxnot(?Saxonette?) for the Saxons. (british nobility)
    Woden(God) is for the Jute people. (british royalty).
    Woden's wife was queen of the Frisians, Frigg. Freyja's(queen of Franks) husband was Odr(of the Gotar-Geats in Gotaland). See the connection?"

    Moody Lawless; In a polytheistic system it is not surprising that various tribes had different deities - but they were all from the same pantheon, so to speak.
    The Saxons were a tribal confederation, some looked to Saxnot, but the majority looked to Woden. In England the Saxons divided themselves up into the East Saxons [present-day Essex], West Saxons [Wessex], South Saxons [Sussex] and Middle Saxons [Middlesex].
    The Saxon flag as flown by the last true Saxon king, Harold, at the Battle of Hastings, was a red winged dragon with a green and yellow tail.
    http://flagspot.net/flags/fr_bayxt.html

    The Angles [Anglia] are thought to have come from Angeln, the name referring to a 'Hook' of land [cf., the sport using the fishing hook, angling, as you refer to in your list of flags].
    'Ing' occurs in the Anglo-Saxon rune-row and is described as a hero from over the seas.

    Ing Rune

    The Jutes are really a mystery, and are usually associated with Jutland for convenience.
    However, as I said, with a polytheistic system various Folk can devote themselves to a particular deity from the pantheon [as Hindus still do in India], but there tends to be a henotheistic over-lord, in this case Woden.

    Properly speaking, 'British' royalty is Keltic and therefore related to the Druidic system. Waddell in his books manages to link the Keltic and Teutonic kingdoms;
    http://www.phoenicia.org/celts.html
    Otherwise, I like the connections that you make, and I conceive of Royalty being ultimately Pan-Aryan.

    Rodskarl; I admit, I wonder about the connection between Vedism and Woden. As far as I know, Wotan means "wode" meaning "odd" and "good"... Consider that Woden's people only had Kent, Wight and Hampshire without any specific allusion to their Jute tribe and you will see what I mean on the subtlety of Woden's influence in Britain, except perhaps religion???...".

    Moody; Etymologists are certain that Wotan/Woden/Odin derives from an Indo-European word, *Wut- meaning a 'frenzy'. This is shown by the now obsolete word 'wod' in English, meaning to go crazy. Shakespeare utilises it in a pun when he says to "wood in a wood" - i.e., go mad in a forest.
    As I said above, many Saxon kings traced their lineage back to Woden as he was a favourite god of many of the nordic pagan tribes in this pre-Christian era. He seems to have usurped Tiw and therefore combined the notions of inspiration and war-frenzy.
    http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Aryan%20god

    I doubt that we can disentangle such ancient tribal groupings as Jutish and Angle, which are historically problematical anyway. I think we should work on the principle of precedence, and look at the qualities of past royal lineages. The Tudors give us the example of a strong racial state [Jews were still banned until the usurper Cromwell committed his crimes] which allowed the highest culture [e.g., Shakespeare] to flourish.
    Therefore the Tudors get my nod.

    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Re: Monarchy!

    The red flag white cross is a relic of Catholic Crusader kingdoms in Europe. First, England used that colour then changed to the flip colour once the Tudors came to power. This smacks of the Normans really being the Danes, which would have them adopt the Dannebrog and have England eventually give it up when Normandy was lost to France. St. Edward The Confessor had a flag (white cross on blue field) that was just like the later France flag and the alternative Greece flag. http://www.fotw.net/flags/fr~mon.html#civens You can look this up on http://www.fotw.net/flags/crus1188.html#int and http://www.fotw.net/flags/smom.html St. Edmund had the 3 crowns on blue. http://www.fotw.net/flags/rel-stgb.html and http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb-eangl.html

    I don't believe some lineages, but I don't think we can be sure. You want a beautiful flag with arms?


  8. #38
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    Post Re: Monarchy!

    The Cross as an Aryan symbol pre-dates Christianity of course; the crucifix form being known as the 'staff of apollo'.
    The Aryan influences on Christian symbolism are mentioned here;

    http://paganizingfaithofyeshua.netfirms.com

    See for general symbolism;
    http://www.symbols.com

    I choose the Tudors as the most legitimate royal house for Britain - we have to work with the historical/ mythical material that has come down to us.

    Let everyone choose their favourite royal house for their own nations; also let's also look at the possibility of a pan-European monarchy.

    A new thread could be based on this. You could also make a new thread here on European Flags with the object of deciding on a new pan-European flag to replace that horrible EU thing.

    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  9. #39
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    Post Re: Monarchy!

    I was stating that the Germanic tribes did not use crowns and crosses before the Mediterranean cultures introduced them.

    I understand what you mean about the backgrounds, although there are several viewpoints to critique.

    I will not tolerate a pan-Euro monarchy. I didn't like the Habsburgs and so I will not like this either. Elected emperors of the culture groups such as Germanic, Slavic, Celtic, etc. and not the land will work.

    Ah, but the flag making is what the World Church is up to and has done. I don't like that stuff. Orthodox and Catholicism was bad enough.

    Oh, and just because the swastika was a common symbol circulated on pottery and the like, doesn't make it automatically a universal symbol. That's a distorted perception built by the "Indo-German Renaissance" that displaces the earlier Indo-Aryan group...I do not take kindly to people rewriting my cultural history as a plaything for political extremities.

    I understand that the sun is a universal symbol. I propose that females ascribe to a full moon for the symbol of fertility. Males obviously are tied to whatever the females go through and experience similar symptoms. Everybody goes through the seasons. I propose a calendar based upon the moon and seasons. It is the sun that makes the seasons, the moon makes the months. I do not like the solar culture's grasp on our everyday life when it is obviously inaccurate. If it were changed so that the Seasons each had a male theme and months had female theme, it would work.
    Last edited by Rodskarl Dubhgall; Wednesday, May 26th, 2004 at 06:58 PM.

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    Post Re: Monarchy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack
    Yes, I am in favour of Monarchy, and a form of meritocratic aristocracy (decadents who rule simply because their ancestors were excellent fighters/administrators for the King shouldn't be there).
    In other words a service aristocracy? I fully agree. Thats very much the system Ivan the Terrible set up in Russia which helped produce great figures like Boris Gudonov.

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