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Thread: Aryanism and Chinese Philosophy?

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    Member Awar's Avatar
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    Post Aryanism and Chinese Philosophy?

    China !?!
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, May 18th, 2004 at 04:45 PM. Reason: split thread

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Aryanism and Chinese Philosophy

    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    China ?!?
    Yes, you may have heard of the Tocharians, an Aryan [or Indo-European] people, now extinct;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians

    "As a working hypothesis say that Kung (i.e., Confucius) is superior to Aristotle by totalitarian instinct".
    [Ezra Pound 1938]

    On Aryan influence in China, see this article whose title says it all;

    Aryans: Culture Bearers to China
    http://www.natall.com/national-vanguard/117/aryans.html

    "China is the land of deepest wisdom".
    [Ludwig Klarges, aphorism 77]

    various links etc., -

    Blondes in Ancient China;
    http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf095/sf095a01.htm

    Red headed mummy;
    http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/798838/posts

    Takla Makan Mummies
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/chinamum/taklamakan.html



    The following links are to Skadi discussions of this topic in other forums just for added information [ I am more interested here on the possible link between Aryanism and Chinese philosophy though]

    www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=10539
    www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=8243
    www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=4687
    www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=1134
    www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=222
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, May 18th, 2004 at 04:59 PM. Reason: split thread/ added more links
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
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    Member Awar's Avatar
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    Post Re: Aryanism and Chinese Philosophy

    Yes, I know about Tocharians, but they were in what today is China, not what once was the centers of Chinese civilization. To be most accurate, you'd have to say Tocharians were in Central Asia, not eastern Asia.

    In any case, their presence there doesn't automatically mean they invented Chinese philosophy.

    Anyway, to further this discussion, you'd have to explain to me your vision of 'Aryanism' ( and please invent a new name, because a similar name is already taken: Arianism is a heresy from the early medieval times, you can cause a confusion ).

    According to what the original ancient Aryans did, there isn't much philosophy to it... they went and conquered, sacked cities, looted, made inventions and lifestyle in accordance to what nomad life, constant wars and danger demanded.

    Let's just say that I view these modern 'Aryans' from Europe and USA as a middle-class hobby... even the intentions you mentioned previously in various posts are all pointed towards creating a society which would function like a collective, no individual freedom, stale, rigid, a sort of proudly marching conformist chauvinists.

    This is totally opposing my view of what an Aryan is.

    I think that the Aryans are a product of nomadic white race, not flag-waving farmers.

    I know too little about Chinese philosphy to really speak anything of any importance, so I just mentioned the geographic inconsistency of your thesis of 'Aryan influence on China'.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Aryanism and Chinese Philosophy?

    1) Culture, geography and archeology.

    As we know, 'Indo-European' [IE] is the modern synonym for 'Aryan' - so that is the 'new name' for 'Aryan'.
    I keep to the olde term 'Aryan', which cannot be confused with the unrelated 'Arian' due to the consistently different spelling [anymore than 'son' can be confused with 'sun'].

    In his very cautious book of 1989, 'In Search of the Indo-Europeans', Mallory has this to say of the Aryan Tocharians;

    "The area occupied by the Tocharians was not a desolate refuge but rather a series of profoundly important oases along the silk-road that led from China to the West".
    [Mallory ib.,]

    So we have clear evidence of Aryan/ Sino contact: note, "not a desolate refuge". And influential?;

    "Tocharians were instrumental in spreading Buddhism to China".
    [ib.,]

    Let's get our time-frames sorted out;

    "In the eastern expansion of the IE languages, Tocharian preceeded Iranian into Turkestan [i.e., before 1,000 BC]".
    [ib.,]

    Mallory puts the earliest date for the Tocharians at about 2,500 BC.

    Of course, the recent finds of Aryan Mummfied remains in these regions has confirmed the Aryan thesis.
    We now have evidence of Aryan culture [Tocharian], geography and race [see the many links in my post above for the recent finds and their ramifications].

    2) Philosophy

    Now philosophy itself begins within this time-frame in the main areas of Aryan influence, expansion and settlement.

    Here is a basic time-frame for the origins of [Aryan] Philosophy;

    India c.1400-1000 BC Composition of the Rig VEDA.

    China c. 800 BC The Odes, Changes

    Persia c.630 BC Zarathustra

    India c. 600 BC The Upanishads

    Greece c. 595 BC Thales

    India (died ? 544 BC) Buddha

    China 551-479 BC Confucious

    China c.550 BC Taoism

    Greece c.530 BC Pythagoras

    Greece c.500 BC Heraclitus

    China c. 479-381 BC Mo Tzu

    Greece c.470-399 BC Socrates - 427-347 BC Plato - 384-322 BC Aristotle

    China c.372-c.289 BC Mencius

    Greece 341-270 BC Epicurus

    So we see that Philosophy itself follows the flow of Aryan man within a millennia.

    Western philosophy begins with Thales, as is acknowledged.
    The Cambridge Companion to Philosophy says of the origins of Philosophy in India and China;

    "The beginnings of philosophical speculation in India can be traced back to the ancient body of oral literature called the Veda".
    [ib.,]

    and;

    "Chinese philosophical thought is often supposed to have originated and blossomed in the last few hundred years of the Chou dynasty [mid 11th century BC to 249 BC]".
    [ib.,]

    This answers an observation I made as student, that Philosophy is fairly incomprehensible to non-Aryans - they just don't GET IT!

    This is because Philosophy is the Aryan activity par excellence.

    [The following is a newsletter I've subscribed to for a while];
    Chinese Swaztika Newsletter;
    http://www.bamboo-delight.com

    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, May 20th, 2004 at 06:18 PM. Reason: added link
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Re: Aryanism and Chinese Philosophy?

    Date for Vedas: When Taittiriya Samhita of Yajurveda was written, they noticed that the ernal equinox had moved from Orion to Pleidas. That was a little before 2,500 BC. RigVeda originates in a time much earlier to that. A californian (probably UCBerkeley) researcher has found that the Vedas was first composed in prose and versified later by Samhita writers. I don't think the Max Muellierian date is correct. The earliest date mentioned is when equinox was in Beta Geminorium (Punarvasu - Aditi period, Tilak - 6000 BC).

    What I mean is that the date for Vedas, Tocharians, Upanishads, everything related to Aryans needs an upward revision.
    Last edited by Aupmanyav; Sunday, September 17th, 2006 at 10:39 AM.

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    Re: Aryanism and Chinese Philosophy?

    I agree that philosophy and metaphysics is almost a strictly Aryan phenomena. What non Aryan philosophers are but 2nd rate. Upanishads, Ancent Greek, proto Aryan.
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, January 15th, 2007 at 12:42 PM. Reason: split thread

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    Re: Aryanism and Chinese Philosophy?

    The Tocharians are mentioned in the Vedas as Tusharas. They are not extinct, but probably have mixed with Chinese, Mongolians, Russians, and Arabs, and have forgotten their lore.
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, January 15th, 2007 at 12:43 PM. Reason: split thread

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    As far as these blond/auburn haired skeltons, it has been the concensus of Anthropologists for some time that they are Asiatics. The hair colour is the result of a post mortem depigmentation phenomena by which cellular degeneration and epithelial interaction under certain envirenmental conditions causes depigmentation of post mortem dermis and epidermis, and fragmentation of amino acid chains in body hair follicles resulting in post mortem blondism (on occasion, albinism). Another example of this phenomenon occured with the famous "ice man" who actually, due to his unique environment, hyperpigmented post mortem.
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, January 15th, 2007 at 01:05 PM. Reason: split thread
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Exclamation Must-see ducumentary about China's European mummies now online

    Now viewable online: the unbelievable documentary The mysterious Indo-European mummies of China.


    Related video's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw64i6nGuss European mummies in China desert (flagged as 'Inappropriate' by enemies of the truth)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqKwU5feaYs The Loulan Mummy




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    Very earlyon the Chinese civilisation borrowed extensively from Indo-European religious/spiritual vocabulary and the concepts shaped later Chinese philosophy - *dyaus > tees and soma/haoma > shuma. Yes Chinese philosophy is semi-Aryan.

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