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Thread: Why Does the "Movement" Marginalize National Socialists?

  1. #21
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    Let's see ... perhaps it is because average people in the movement care more about the battle at hand.

    This has two implications: Some of the idealists fail to see that you need to gradually convince the population, on the other hand those who solely care about the immediate threat and getting the population somewhat towards our side oft miss the idealism and don't think beyond this immediate battle.

    The importance should be to both have an ideal and let it ripen, and to have a pragmatic approach to the problems of today. Some NS lack the pragmatic approach, whilst some "08/15 Nationalists" lack the ideal beyond that.

    In short, many NS have a goal but fail to understand the path leading thereto. Many "08/15 Nationalists" have no goal, but have a path leading to nowhere. Unless this struggle between these two camps is resolved to include both a long-term goal AND a pragmatic approach, we don't even have to talk about appearances, as people neither like the dreamers, nor the aimless.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    I've nothing against the NS, but here some ideas:
    Some of the NS dwell too much on Hitlerism. The average peoples care about ideology and practic politics, not leader cults. The NS shouldn't be stuck in the past. The ideology itself isn't so much faulty, but the symbolism should be changed.
    But don't forget, NS is illegal in many countries from Europe, and peoples don't want to associate with the NS because they don't want to get into problems with the law.

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    I think Siebenbürgerin has a lot of valid points. Classical NS is pretty much dead in the water. Courtesy of Uncle Adolf. You have to look to the future. If we want to “reach out” to the general public, beyond the sectarian milieu, the NS trappings has to go. National Socialists in the "movement" have to make a choice. What’s most important? Fetish for a historical era long gone or Germanic preservation? New Right / Nouvelle Droite is one alternative, another one is the good old’ ethnic nationalism. The primary goal should be the survival of our folk and our culture. Whatever works is my motto, and NS doesn’t work today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    The NS shouldn't be stuck in the past.
    Those who are, are by definition no NS.
    The problem is that very few of the NS and whoever, including you, do not really know the ideology of NS, and are stuck with the image of of those who claim to know, but really don't.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    I've seen it on several white/European/Germanic forums and I have to ask, honestly: why does the nationalist/preservationist/call it what you want "movement" marginalize Nationalsocialists, tries to dissociate from them and view them as some sort of pariah? Most say it's because Nationalsocialists use imagery which is damaging to the movement and paints them as the stereotypical image in the media. But I have troubles believing it.
    You are dealing with cultural hegemony here. And the "Nazis" in the post WW2 popular culture are some kind of incarnation of evil to them.
    Hitler is the devil and Neonazis are seen as some kind of heretics. So if you are not dissociating from that enthusiastically enough, you are suspect to be some kind of heretic that will be stigmatized. People are afraid of that stigma so they react to it. It's pretty uninteresting what the historical facts are, as long as someone is still part of the parareligion.



    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    On at least two other forums, swastikas are banned from being used in avatars and signatures, but other political symbols, including ones that are perceived as racist in the media, like Ku Klux Klan, RaHoWa, are allowed. Criticism of Jews is frowned at, but other minorities like Muslims are allowed to be criticized and even slurred at. I can't help sensing a bias against Nationalsocialists. So? Nationalsocialists are not good enough for the movement? You don't consider them your allies?
    Don't you think they just want to get rid of Wannabee-Nazis and other idiots? Let's face it you get people that are copying the imagery of "Nazis" established by the media and which simply fit into that parareligion that is part of the popular culture. So of the forums will shut that down, just to prevent them from becoming a collection point for pseudo-rightist wannabee, who do not contribute anything of value.

    The bias is based on the parareligion of political correctness where Hitler is some kind of evil God. I think Bob Whitaker descibed this phenomenom well in his book "Why Johnny can't think". Perhaps we should elaborate on this phenomenon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    PS: Please only serious answers, not "Nationalsocialism is ungermanic" and ad hominems against Hitler please.
    That usually would indentify that the person in question is still rooted into that parareligion.
    "And God proclaims as a first principle to the rulers, and above all else, that there is nothing which they should so anxiously guard, or of which they are to be such good guardians, as of the purity of the race. They should observe what elements mingle in their offspring;..." Plato Politeia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    I've nothing against the NS, but here some ideas:
    Some of the NS dwell too much on Hitlerism. The average peoples care about ideology and practic politics, not leader cults. The NS shouldn't be stuck in the past. The ideology itself isn't so much faulty, but the symbolism should be changed.
    But don't forget, NS is illegal in many countries from Europe, and peoples don't want to associate with the NS because they don't want to get into problems with the law.
    NS is not about leader cults. I am not a Hitlerite to give you an example, and many other NS aren't. It's not about 'worshipping' Hitler, but Hitler was an important figure in NS, and much of his words are eye-openers. What he said about Jews for instance doesn't just apply to his era, but also to the present, and unfortunately even to the future if the situation continues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ensomheten View Post
    I think Siebenbürgerin has a lot of valid points. Classical NS is pretty much dead in the water. Courtesy of Uncle Adolf. You have to look to the future. If we want to “reach out” to the general public, beyond the sectarian milieu, the NS trappings has to go. National Socialists in the "movement" have to make a choice. What’s most important? Fetish for a historical era long gone or Germanic preservation? New Right / Nouvelle Droite is one alternative, another one is the good old’ ethnic nationalism. The primary goal should be the survival of our folk and our culture. Whatever works is my motto, and NS doesn’t work today.
    We don't need the general public, which is 90% idiot and ignorant, we need to establish a base of nationalists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    Don't you think they just want to get rid of Wannabee-Nazis and other idiots? Let's face it you get people that are copying the imagery of "Nazis" established by the media and which simply fit into that parareligion that is part of the popular culture. So of the forums will shoot that down, just to prevent them from becoming a collection point for pseudo-rightist wannabee, who do not contribute anything of value.
    No, I doubt that's the reason. Wherever Third Reich imagery is not allowed, Communist propaganda and the like is. There are even members on those forums who have Communist avatars and praise that ideology. NS is the only ideology which isn't allowed in imagery. Criticism of Jews and exposing their plans is labeled as 'Jew-paranoia' or 'conspiracy theories', even when the sources are cited. Whenever someone points to the Jews' scheme, he gets a lecture on how obsession with Jews is counterproductive, regardless if that's the only post about Jews in weeks. Criticism of Muslims on the other hand is allowed without quotas and even encouraged, so there is a clear preference. More and more nationalists are watering down their views to please the Zionist elites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ensomheten View Post
    I think Siebenbürgerin has a lot of valid points. Classical NS is pretty much dead in the water. Courtesy of Uncle Adolf. Y...
    That kind of statement usually reveals lack of understanding of real history. It is also quite surprising coming from someone that actually should know what metapolitics are. The parareligion demonizing Hitler is not based on the historical figure, but on a mythical beast that has been socially constructed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    ...No, I doubt that's the reason.
    What else should be the reason?
    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    Wherever Third Reich imagery is not allowed, Communist propaganda and the like is. There are even members on those forums who have Communist avatars and praise that ideology. NS is the only ideology which isn't allowed in imagery. Criticism of Jews and exposing their plans is labeled as 'Jew-paranoia' or 'conspiracy theories', even when the sources are cited. Whenever someone points to the Jews' scheme, he gets a lecture on how obsession with Jews is counterproductive, regardless if that's the only post about Jews in weeks. Criticism of Muslims on the other hand is allowed without quotas and even encouraged, so there is a clear preference. More and more nationalists are watering down their views to please the Zionist elites.
    Well, for starters despite the fact that Communist atrocities are even in vast of excess of anything the "Nazis" have been accused of, their status in the pantheon still suffets. While the "Nazis" are seen as some kind of mythical incarnation of evil, Communist are just misunderstood idealists that are extreme and violent, but actually not that bad, since they only wanted the best for mankind.

    I remember how strangers came to SF preaching to us on how "Holocaust denial" would be "damaging our cause". And actually I've seen this kind of "advice" from people that are known lefties.

    The "conspiracy theory" is a joker that can cut both ways:
    a) One can make up a conspiracy theory and when asked for proof, revert back to the response that "the conspiracy is secret". This makes it kind of a technique to justify any kind of claim about politics.
    b) Label a claim a "conspiracy theory" and thereby imply that a claim is like (a) making it unworthy of any further investigation.

    One get's both kinds of peope. The ones that make up ridiculous conspiracy theories and the ones that dismiss everything that is to far from the official line they believe in as a "conspiracy theories".

    An example for (a) would be the claim that the Jesuits are "running world affairs" right now. As an example for (b) I can recall mentioning to someon that the publi schooling system has been created by groups that seek to control childrens early upbringing to further their agenda. Someone labelled this a "conspiracy theory". The problem is that this isn't even kept secret, since political parties and churches are doing this quite openly. And secrecy is actually a requirement for conspiracy (working secretly together to achieve a common agenda). By now the influence of Jews in media, movie-making, banking etc. should actually be common knowledge. However I think that their real power is often overestimated and actually it is this believe in their power that gives them even more power.

    I also notice the tendency to Muslim Bashing these days. How are Americans going to do it "Catholic Bashing", since Latrinos are overwhelmingly Roman Catholic?

    Perhabs one should discuss how the present day immigration policies came into being? Jews of course can not do anything wrong, since they have the eternal innocent victim status in the mentioned pantheon.
    "And God proclaims as a first principle to the rulers, and above all else, that there is nothing which they should so anxiously guard, or of which they are to be such good guardians, as of the purity of the race. They should observe what elements mingle in their offspring;..." Plato Politeia

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    Perhabs one should discuss how the present day immigration policies came into being? Jews of course can not do anything wrong, since they have the eternal innocent victim status in the mentioned pantheon.
    If it's paramount that we make everyone understand that the Jews were/are behind the multicultural society and mass immigration in order to stop it, then the question becomes: is multiculturalism and mass immigration bad because they are schemes promoted by Jews or are they bad on their own merits? If we can't convince people that multi culturalism is bad based on the effects it has on our society, our people and our future, then how on earth are we going to do it?

    Why does the average European need to know that Jews were promoting it in order for him to think that multi culturalism is a bad idea? Shouldn't he be able to reach that conclusion without knowing who was behind it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    If it's paramount that we make everyone understand that the Jews were/are behind the multicultural society and mass immigration in order to stop it, then the question becomes: is multiculturalism and mass immigration bad because they are schemes promoted by Jews or are they bad on their own merits? If we can't convince people that multi culturalism is bad based on the effects it has on our society, our people and our future, then how on earth are we going to do it?
    Yes, multiculturalism is bad no wonder who started promoting it.

    Why does the average European need to know that Jews were promoting it in order for him to think that multi culturalism is a bad idea? Shouldn't he be able to reach that conclusion without knowing who was behind it?
    Because the right-wing in Europe is infiltrated by Jews and Zionists like Geert Wilders who give the impression they're against multiculturalism but in reality they're just anti-Muslim Zionists. It's important to know who is our friend and who isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    Why does the average European need to know that Jews were promoting it in order for him to think that multi culturalism is a bad idea?
    Identifying the cause is necessary to find a solution to the problem. It is not about propaganda for awareness of the problem itself.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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