View Poll Results: Should Turkey join the EU?

Voters
34. You may not vote on this poll
  • Never!

    28 82.35%
  • No, at least not in my lifetime

    2 5.88%
  • Yes, but only after 100 years, so that i will not live any more

    0 0%
  • Yes, if Turkey becomes "European" enough

    2 5.88%
  • Yes, why not? I am fond of Turks anyway

    1 2.94%
  • Of course! Turkey is great, i really admire Turks and look up to them. Turks are a role model for all Europeans.

    0 0%
  • Who cares!

    1 2.94%
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Thread: EU Enlargement: Should Turkey Join the EU?

  1. #221
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    Post Re: Should Turkey become a member of the EU?

    Turkey has nothing to do with Europe, if turkey joins EU , iraq , japan and angola can also join...

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    Post Re: Should Turkey become a member of the EU?

    Instead of debating whether Turkey should be permitted to join the EU we should be discussing how the EU can be overthrown. It is a left of centre fascist superstate that imposes it rule upon Aryans and its ultimate objective as part of the Zionist global conspiracy is our biological destruction.
    Therefore why debate extending this monster? Away with it I say.

  3. #223
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    Post Re: Should Turkey become a member of the EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by AryanKrieger
    Instead of debating whether Turkey should be permitted to join the EU we should be discussing how the EU can be overthrown. It is a left of centre fascist superstate that imposes it rule upon Aryans and its ultimate objective as part of the Zionist global conspiracy is our biological destruction.
    Therefore why debate extending this monster? Away with it I say.
    In a sense you are right. This would be the fact the a lower brain usage uniformity would be imposed by the modern society. This is debatable too, the measure in which human really like that: "it's simpler this way, not too much brainthinking for ourselves". Still, even taking into account that, the human society evoluated during the last decades, nobody can deny that.

    In another sense, you are drifting away, with all the respect. I understand the human society as a permanent evolution and not a permanent stagnation. If somebody comes out now and says that we should get back to the tribal way of life, with tribes hating one another and easily getting to war one another, I kindly invite him to join Afghanistan or Somalia, there is the place where such tribal way of life still exists.

  4. #224
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    Post Re: Should Turkey become a member of the EU?

    Turkey shouldn't join EU, and the Turks shouldn't settle in Europe anymore, yet I think this is a good country to forge a military alliance with. Turks are numerous, and they have a strong army, and they proved to be good allays in ww1. and ww2.

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    Post Re: Should Turkey become a member of the EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by marius
    In a sense you are right. This would be the fact the a lower brain usage uniformity would be imposed by the modern society. This is debatable too, the measure in which human really like that: "it's simpler this way, not too much brainthinking for ourselves". Still, even taking into account that, the human society evoluated during the last decades, nobody can deny that.

    In another sense, you are drifting away, with all the respect. I understand the human society as a permanent evolution and not a permanent stagnation. If somebody comes out now and says that we should get back to the tribal way of life, with tribes hating one another and easily getting to war one another, I kindly invite him to join Afghanistan or Somalia, there is the place where such tribal way of life still exists.
    Marius I am not advocating tribalism.I am merely making the point that the very existence of the fascist dictatorship called the EU should be called into question.
    We do not need such a structure and I do not see this as part of some sociological evolution either!

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    Post Re: Should Turkey become a member of the EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by AryanKrieger
    Marius I am not advocating tribalism.I am merely making the point that the very existence of the fascist dictatorship called the EU should be called into question.
    We do not need such a structure and I do not see this as part of some sociological evolution either!
    You wrote in your description you were NS. Then you must be in love of a "fascist dictatureship".

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    Post Re: Should Turkey become a member of the EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by marius
    You wrote in your description you were NS. Then you must be in love of a "fascist dictatureship".
    And? I am a National Socialist not a fascist. I resent being referred to as such.
    National Socialism is an entire world view. It is not power for power`s sake. I find any form of fascism repulsive: it is contrary to my Germanic spirit.

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    Post Re: Should Turkey become a member of the EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by AryanKrieger
    And? I am a National Socialist not a fascist. I resent being referred to as such.
    National Socialism is an entire world view. It is not power for power`s sake. I find any form of fascism repulsive: it is contrary to my Germanic spirit.
    That's the first time I ever heard there was more than a slight insignificant difference between fascism and national-socialism...

    The word fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini's, that

    * exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual,
    * uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition,
    * engages in severe economic and social regimentation, and
    * espouses nationalism and sometimes racism (ethnic nationalism).

    In an article in the 1932 Enciclopedia Italiana, written by Giovanni Gentile and attributed to Benito Mussolini, fascism is described as a system in which "The State not only is authority which governs and molds individual wills with laws and values of spiritual life, but it is also power which makes its will prevail abroad.... For the Fascist, everything is within the State and... neither individuals or groups are outside the State.... For Fascism, the State is an absolute, before which individuals or groups are only relative."

    Mussolini, in a speech delivered on October 28, 1925, stated the following maxim that encapsulates the fascist philosophy: "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato." ("Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State".)

    Nazism is usually considered as a kind of fascism, but it should be understood that Nazism sought the state's purpose in serving an ideal to valuing what its content should be: its people, race, and the social engineering of these aspects of culture to the ends of the greatest possible prosperity for them at the expense of all else. In contrast, Mussolini's fascism held to the ideology that all of these factors existed to serve the state, and that it wasn't necessarily in the state's interest to serve or engineer any of these particulars within its sphere as any priority. The only purpose of the government under fascism proper was to value itself as the highest priority to its culture in just being the state in itself, the larger scope of which, the better, and for these reasons it can be said to have been a governmental statolatry.

    While Nazism was a metapolitical ideology, seeing itself only as a utility by which an allegorical condition of its people was to be achieved, fascism was a squarely anti-socialist form of statism that existed by virtue and as an end in and of itself. The Nazi movement spoke of class-based society as the enemy, and wanted to unify the racial element above established classes. The Fascist movement, on the other hand, sought to preserve the class system and uphold it as the foundation of established and desirable culture. This underlying theorem made the contemporary Fascists and Nazis see themselves and their respective political labels as at least partially exclusive to one another.

    Today, however, this difference is not made often in terminology, even when used historically. This is mostly because both ideologies have ceased to be society-driven movements of their own anywhere in the world today. Outside of their internal reasoning, their own opposing ideas have no part to play in modern politics, and could be said to be arbitrarily alien to the liberal states currently dealing in defining political concerns.

    As a political science, the philosophical pretext to the literal fascism of the historical Italian type believes the state's nature is superior to that of the sum of the individuals comprising it -- individuals exist for the state, rather than the state existing to serve them. The resources that individuals provide from participating in the community are conceived as a productive duty of individual progress serving an entity greater than the sum of its parts. Therefore, all individuals' business is the state's business, and the state's existence is the sole duty of the individual.

    In its Corporativist model of totalitarian but private management, the various functions of the state were trades, conceived as individualized entities making up that state. Further, it is in the state's interest to oversee them for that reason, but not direct them or make them public because such functioning in government hands undermines the development of what the state is. Private activity is in a sense contracted to the state so that the state may suspend the infrastructure of any entity in accordance with their usefulness and direction, or with health to the state.

    Fascist movements have historically been composed of small capitalists, low-level bureaucrats, and the middle classes. Fascism also met with great success in rural areas, especially among farmers, peasants, and in the city, the lumpenproletariat. A key feature of fascism is that it uses its mass movement to attack the organizations of the working class - parties of the left and trade unions.

    Unlike the pre–World War II period, when many groups openly and proudly proclaimed themselves fascist, in the post–World War II period, the term has taken on an extremely pejorative meaning, largely in reaction to the crimes against humanity committed by the Nazis.

    Today, very few groups proclaim themselves as fascist, and the term almost universally is used for groups for whom the speaker has little regard, often with minimal understanding of what the term actually means. The term "fascist" or "Nazi" is often ascribed to individuals or groups who are perceived to behave in an authoritarian manner; by silencing opposition, judging personal behavior, or otherwise attempting to concentrate power. More particularly, "Fascist" is sometimes used by members of the Left to characterize some group or persons of the far-right or neo-far-right, or the far left activists as a description of any political or cultural influences perceived as "non-progressive," or merely not sufficiently progressive. This usage receded much following the 1970s, but has enjoyed a strong resurgence in connection with Anti-globalization activism.

    Fascism, in many respects, is an ideology of negativism: anti-liberal, anti-socialist, anti-Communist, anti-democratic, anti-egalitarian, etc. As a political and economic system in Italy, it combined elements of corporatism, totalitarianism, nationalism, and anti-communism.
    Source: Wikipedia
    Last edited by Marius; Monday, November 1st, 2004 at 08:57 PM. Reason: Completion

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    Post Re: Should Turkey become a member of the EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by marius
    That's the first time I ever heard there was more than a slight insignificant difference between fascism and national-socialism...



    Source: Wikipedia
    From your quote you have demonstrated the clear differences between National Socialism and fascism. The way in which the function of the state is perceived is integral to this. I would also contend that fascism has no natural racial basis unlike National Socialism which places race above all every other concept, including that of the state itself.
    Hitler made it abundantly clear in his speach in "Triumph des Willens" that it us the Volk that has created and shaped the state and not the other way around. The state is merely a vehicle for the advancement of National Socialism and the improvement of the race: it does not exist for itself as it does in the EU.

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    Post Re: Should Turkey become a member of the EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by AryanKrieger
    From your quote you have demonstrated the clear differences between National Socialism and fascism. The way in which the function of the state is perceived is integral to this. I would also contend that fascism has no natural racial basis unlike National Socialism which places race above all every other concept, including that of the state itself.
    Hitler made it abundantly clear in his speach in "Triumph des Willens" that it us the Volk that has created and shaped the state and not the other way around. The state is merely a vehicle for the advancement of National Socialism and the improvement of the race: it does not exist for itself as it does in the EU.
    Theoretically, as affirmed in the quote, Nazism is a form of Fascism, a little bit more than a subset.
    Practically, as affirmed in the quote, the use of the words is similar nowadays.

    Second, all this things with only Germanics, only Nordids... means tribalism. If I add the worship pagan divinities, I really start to think to the Stone Age. If Germany wants to take this direction (which I deeply doubt) then it will be sure not only its migrants would leave, but also the majority of its natives will also flee.

    Third, the European Preservation, in all senses has nothing to do with Nazism. The latter is a deviation of the former.

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