View Poll Results: Should Turkey join the EU?

Voters
34. You may not vote on this poll
  • Never!

    28 82.35%
  • No, at least not in my lifetime

    2 5.88%
  • Yes, but only after 100 years, so that i will not live any more

    0 0%
  • Yes, if Turkey becomes "European" enough

    2 5.88%
  • Yes, why not? I am fond of Turks anyway

    1 2.94%
  • Of course! Turkey is great, i really admire Turks and look up to them. Turks are a role model for all Europeans.

    0 0%
  • Who cares!

    1 2.94%
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Thread: EU Enlargement: Should Turkey Join the EU?

  1. #51
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    Post Re: EU Enlargement - Turkey

    The problem is most of the respondents are too much racist to think rationally. Marius, in the last Turkish elections, a political party won the elections, which claimed to be an Islamist party. However, in last two years, that party passed so many democratic and liberal laws that Turkey almost adopted all Copenhagen criterias for EU negotiations. The main problem of Turkey merging EU is very strong and historical military influence on the government. Hopefully this will be minimized if Turkey joins EU. All other cultural, religius and racist ideas are not justified. I have been in most Eastern European countries, I can say Turkey has much better economical infrastructure, cultural adaptation and possibilities than those ex-communist countries.

    Speaking racially, most of you guys even cannot seperate between a Turkish and a Greek person. Because they look alike too much. Most people living on the east side of Turkey is Kurds and they have a seperate look than Turkish people living on the West Turkey. Finally, who cares about race anyways? EU is not based on racist values. It is based on human rights and economical development.

  2. #52
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    Thumbs Up Re: EU Enlargement - Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by justify
    The problem is most of the respondents are too much racist to think rationally. Marius, in the last Turkish elections, a political party won the elections, which claimed to be an Islamist party. However, in last two years, that party passed so many democratic and liberal laws that Turkey almost adopted all Copenhagen criterias for EU negotiations. The main problem of Turkey merging EU is very strong and historical military influence on the government. Hopefully this will be minimized if Turkey joins EU. All other cultural, religius and racist ideas are not justified. I have been in most Eastern European countries, I can say Turkey has much better economical infrastructure, cultural adaptation and possibilities than those ex-communist countries.
    key-word: ex-communist
    The Sahara desert has a better infrastructure than that of the nations which survived corrupt 'communist' rule.

    Speaking racially, most of you guys even cannot seperate between a Turkish and a Greek person. Because they look alike too much. Most people living on the east side of Turkey is Kurds and they have a seperate look than Turkish people living on the West Turkey. Finally, who cares about race anyways? EU is not based on racist values. It is based on human rights and economical development.
    1. Turks are primarily Islamized Greeks and indigenous Anatolians, Armenians, Kurds etc. The western part of todays Turkey has the greatest ammount of 'greek' DNA, and that's the reason the two ethnicities look alike... some millenia ago, they were one, Hellenic people.

    2. A lot of people care about race, but that's not a relevant issue here. Turks are the same race as other Europeans, the only differences being sub-racial, ethnical and religious.

    I certainly don't mind Turkey joining EU, I just hope that Turks and other nations, especially Bosnians, Albanians and Iranians abandon ISLAM.

  3. #53
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    Post Re: EU Enlargement - Turkey

    Atatürk certainly helped Turkey in that sense. I wish the same for the others. The pre-Islamic cultural factors of modern Islam are a hindrance to cultural growth for all the populations that you mentioned. Why are they so poor and backward? Just look at little Albania. Compare it with even smaller Slovenia. The difference is huge, an ocean inbetween. Is Islam not one of the reasons? Can you tell me your opinion?

    Why Turkey may now have a better economy is because of American support and working for more globalism and free trade. The textile industry is also large. Turks are in some ways Americanised in economy yet they want to be in Europe. They should make their decision. What do they want? In the end Europe should decide and Turkey should adjust. We shall see if they can.


    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR
    I certainly don't mind Turkey joining EU, I just hope that Turks and other nations, especially Bosnians, Albanians and Iranians abandon ISLAM.

  4. #54
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    Post Re: EU Enlargement - Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by justify
    ...in the last Turkish elections, a political party won the elections, which claimed to be an Islamist party.

    ... The main problem of Turkey merging EU is very strong and historical military influence on the government. Hopefully this will be minimized if Turkey joins EU

    ... It is based on human rights and economical development.
    For the first citate, I feal you have a bad idea over this. You think that it SAID it would be an Islamist party, but it proved not being one. You really feal bad over this and I find it extremely dangerous. If even guys like you, who pretend to be evoluated, who speak foreign languages and who know something else than only his interpretation of Coran, think like that, then Turkey should not join EU. I imagine how the simple Turk thinks.

    For the second citate, it seems you are really disturbed by the influence of the Army. Well, of course, in any other real European country, this would not be a problem. But in a country which can easily go in the Wahhabist and extreme Islamist direction is not a problem, it's a benediction. At least there is one force who can control this Islamist madness which comprises at this moment the whole Middle East and the whole block of Islamic countries. Personally, I think the motivation of this madness is simply the jealousy over the success in life standards of Western culture.

    And for the third one, this should really interest you. Human rights mean also the right to live and not to right to kill in the name of God/Allah. Have you seen the whole film where Berg is beheaded? Are you interested to see it? I can tell you that there is nothing to see besides some inhuman beasts attacking like fools another human being and crying "Allah Akbar!". And please don't start with what the Americans did in Irak now or Israelis in Palestine, cause actions like Zarqawi did, never happened, not even during the Middle Ages... Cutting somebody's throat with a kitchen knife and not having peace till you did not cut it completely...

    As I told you before, it is not important the infrastructure of Turkey, which may be good, they never had communism, but the danger it may represent an uprisal of Islamism in a country, which could be a member of the EU. So, the mentality of the majority of Turks is the troubling problem, even if officially something else is said.

  5. #55
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    Post Re: EU Enlargement - Turkey

    Honestly, if the Turks hadn't adopted Islam back in the 10th century, it would have soon died out as a religion in most parts of the world. Of course, this is one of those highly complex crossroads in history that's too difficult to untangle in simple conversation.

    The fact is that any country can easily fall into a religious delirium, for Islamic countries this holds extra dangers.

  6. #56
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    Post Re: EU Enlargement - Turkey

    You may be right that it is a bit superficial because of a state that is more friendly towards Europe and values associated with the continent. The problem is that one must define what values we do share. There are great differences between countries, and sometimes inasmuch within a European country.

    One should find out how big the said mentality really is. The Turks who emigrated to Northern Europe come predominantly from certain villages and smaller towns in Eastern Turkey. They are obviously more traditional there. They cannot represent Turks as a whole. I also doubt that they would be much of a competitive work force in their country of origin.


    Quote Originally Posted by marius
    So, the mentality of the majority of Turks is the troubling problem, even if officially something else is said.

  7. #57
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    Post Re: EU Enlargement - Turkey

    Marius, obviously you do not know Turkish people, or the Turks you met are extreme people who are migrated in Western Europe in the 60s. As Volksdeutscher mentioned, those Turks were villagers without any skills and education. When they went to work in West Europe, they held on their religion to protect their identity like all minorities do. You should not judge Turks based on this.

    Extremist Islamists are very little percentage of Turkish population. I guarentee you most Turks (at least 90%) are not radically Muslim and do not support or want an Islamic nation. Military interventions of army generals are not based on the fears of Islamic nation. They use this fear as if they do not intervene politics, Turkey would be like Iran. These generals want to protect their strength and influence, and they use fundamental Islam threat over governments. Same thing is done in the US by Bush (war against terrorism) to implement his aggresive military politics. In Turkey This will be over soon with the merge of EU.

    I do not know the intrepretation of Quran but I wish I do. Most of my peers do not know either. Do not think Islam is something to fear about, Islam is a religion of tolerance. Do not judge Muslims based on fictious scenes (Berg's murder) or some extreme terrorists who are paid by your governments actually. We are not like that.

    One respondent asked why Muslim countries are poorer. Speaking of Turkey, historically, Turks stayed away from trade and left most trade to the Jews. And of course when their military power decreased and West Europe went through Reinance and Refom, Turks could not improve themselves because lack of economic power. In fact one of Turkish sultans in 19th century did not even know there is a huge amount of oil (lack of trade knowledge and education) in Middle East and left those soils to Brits to stay away from conflicts. And also Turks did not use economical infrastructure of countries they conquered as oppose Britain and France, Turks only collected taxes. They did not change religions or cultures of those countries. That's why most Balkan countries are not Muslims, even they lived 400 years under Turkish rule.

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    Post Re: EU Enlargement - Turkey

    How did they become Muslims? Certain classes and regions became Muslim and others not. Are you claiming it was not because of Ottoman rule?


    Quote Originally Posted by justify
    They did not change religions or cultures of those countries. That's why most Balkan countries are not Muslims, even they lived 400 years under Turkish rule.

  9. #59
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    Post Re: EU Enlargement - Turkey

    VD'er, the regions which became Muslims mostly belonged to the Bogumil and other sects, and they adopted Islam as some sort of liberation. Of course, there were other cases as well.

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    Post Re: EU Enlargement - Turkey

    Look at the major Balkan nations. Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Macedonia, all ex- Yugoslavian countries (except Bosnia) were under the rule of Ottoman Empire for centuries. None of them Muslim, none of them speaks Turkish. Look at the British or French colonies, Tunus, Morocco - they speak French as their first language. Brits converted most African and island nations to Cristians with missionaries. In conclusion, even though Turks are blamed for barbarianism, rapes, and killings, which is quite understandable for war conditions (look at US soldiers in 21st century, supposed to be all trained and civilized) they did not force to change people's faith and life under their authority. This is important to show Turk's tolerance and understanding of other cultures.

    Another response was about Turks are closer to America than EU. This used to be right but last year Turkey rejected relocation of American troops in Eastern Turkey during the Iraq war. America offered $8.5 billion for this but Turkish parliement rejected this money because majority of Turks were against this dirty war like all European citizens except Brits. I believe this brought Europe and Turkey closer in politics than Turks to America. Also, you should compare between American and European foreign politics strategies in world leadership. EU could not even come together for a united response for Iraq war. However, US is always united in terms of foreign politics.

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