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Thread: Runes: Celtic or Norse, Germanic Heritage?

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    Member RusViking's Avatar
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    Post Runes: Celtic or Norse, Germanic Heritage?

    I am curious as to why both the Norse and Celts both apparently used the runic alphabet. If so, does this suggest some closer relationship we as yet have not defined here?

    And what of their body art, very similiar yes? Not to mention their art, especially jewelry, in general.

    Just a question.

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    Senior Member Phill's Avatar
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    Post Re: Runes: Celtic or Norse, Germanic Heritage?

    I am unsure about the origin of a Runic Alphabet (FUTHARK, i'm assuming we're talking about) when it comes to the Celtic people.

    But the ever-so-popular "Celtic Knotwork", i recall reading, is supposedly Saxon in origin. Some monk went over, and the Celts quickly popularlized it. I also learned one way to distinguise Nordic Knotwork from Celtic (since both did some) is that Nordic ones have animals in with them. They're not always, but it just seems to be uncommon among 'celtic' works.

    That's all i can remember off the bat.

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    Senior Member Mac Seafraidh's Avatar
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    Post Re: Runes: Celtic or Norse, Germanic Heritage?

    I believe Germanic tribes were creators of the runic alphabet. I have looked at the differences between Germanic tribal and the new Runes from the Germanic that settled in Scandanavia and the German tribes seem to have a more painted or hand drawn seqence. The Norse ones I believe were carved into stone usually. As far as Celtic goes. I believe their runic system was quite a bit different. They all came from the Germanic tribes which would answer the question if I am not mistaken.

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    Member Awar's Avatar
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    Post Re: Runes: Celtic or Norse, Germanic Heritage?

    Turkic and Mongol runes are also very similar. Some say it's due to using similar materials when creating them.


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    Post Re: Runes: Celtic or Norse, Germanic Heritage?

    I haven't seen an instance of Celts using Norse or Germanic Runes (at least not without the presence of Norse there already)

    A system of writing did evolve in Ireland called Ogham Script (it also was also taken to Britain by the Irish). It consists of a series of straight and slanting perpendicular lines of various lengths.

    In medieval times, Irish and British monks created some pretty amazing Illuminated Manuscripts which were intricately decorated using Celtic, Norse and Anglo-Saxon designs. Most of what I have seen of the Book of Kells in fact seems Anglo-Saxon in origin. It's possible that the Anglo-Saxons attempted to reproduce Celtic art style or possibly they have a common origin in the mists of time. Although the Celts did depict animals, I agree that they tended to depict plants and abstract geometrical patterns instead. Both styles look similar but I tend to think the Anglo-Saxon designs look somewhat cruder (perhaps I'm just biased though )

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    Post Re: Runes: Celtic or Norse, Germanic Heritage?

    Actually AWAR, one or two of those Turkic runes look not too disimilar to Ogham symbols

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    Smile Re: Runes: Celtic or Norse, Germanic Heritage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    Actually AWAR, one or two of those Turkic runes look not too disimilar to Ogham symbols
    It's probably because the Celts, Germans, Turkic peoples and Slavs all used similar materials for writing the runes. Other explanation could be that the runes are much older and originated from some place between Celts ( west ) and Turks ( east ).

    Yes, Slavs had their own Runes which didn't survive the christianization.

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    Senior Member Graeme's Avatar
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    Post Re: Runes: Celtic or Norse, Germanic Heritage?

    What about the writings of the Picts? Or are they included under Kelts. The Kelts or rather their culture and language were all over Europe and Turkey. Would not the runes be Keltic and the other groups borrowed it?

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    Post Re: Runes: Celtic or Norse, Germanic Heritage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme
    What about the writings of the Picts? Or are they included under Kelts. The Kelts or rather their culture and language were all over Europe and Turkey. Would not the runes be Keltic and the other groups borrowed it?
    Pictish inscriptions share many similarities with Celtic ones, but they are pretty much unique. Some experts count the Picts as Celts, some do not.
    The reason for the latter group is that they say that their writings on these inscriptions are not only in a language which is non-Celtic, but also non Indo-European. Actually, I would go even further and say that it doesn't even look as though it's from this planet, which makes me suspicious that they haven't been properly decoded.

    According to the Gaelic legends, the Cruthin (Picts) came from Iberia sometime after the Gaels arrived in Ireland (also from Iberia). In the tales, we have interaction between Gaels and Picts (the Gaels send them to modern-day Scotland). Some Picts remained in Ireland too, primarily along the north-east coast. As they had contact with the Gaels in the surrounding lands, I assume communication was possible. However in the first centuries AD, when the Kingdom of Dal Riada began colonising Scotland, it is said that the Gaelic monks couldn't communicate with the Picts in Scotland.

    This seems strange. What happened during that time?
    Had the language of the Scottish Picts changed so much as to be incomprehensible to those who could communicate with their Irish brethren and their ancestors centuries before? Had they aquired a completely new language?

    The modern decoding of Pictish inscriptions in Scotland reveal a language utterly alien which I can't imagine how anyone would pronounce. It doesn't seem related to either a Celtic tongue or a Basque tongue (considering the Iberian connection)

    As in most things, the Picts remain a mystery

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    Post Re: Runes: Celtic or Norse, Germanic Heritage?

    Quote Originally Posted by AWAR

    Yes, Slavs had their own Runes which didn't survive the christianization.
    Indeed they had them, whatever their origin might have been.

    http://www.voyagenow.com/travel-refe..._slovakia.html

    Addition (20030915): Latest research reveals that ancient Slavs had their own alphabet - Slavic runes which were called "Runice" (Runica/Runitsa), Znaky, "Certy y Rezy" ("Cherty y Rezy" - "Strokes and Cuts") and later, "Vlasovice" (Vlesovitsa). The Cyrillic system ("Cyrillitsa") was created in the 9th century by Sts. Cyril and Methodius based on a combination of the Greek alphabet and the Slavic Runes. Vlesovitsa continued to be used by the Pagans, while Cyrillitsa was used by the Christians. During the "war" against Paganism, the Christians destroyed each document that contained Runic instead of the Cyrillic writing, usually along with its owner. This was done so effectively that according to most sources, the ancient Slavic peoples had no written language at all. Therefore the nearly all records of the rituals, temples and idols/gods of the ancient Slavs come from the very people sent to destroy them.
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

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