View Poll Results: I believe that:

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  • Schleswig-Holstein is rightfully German.

    21 28.38%
  • Schleswig-Holstein is rightfully Danish.

    20 27.03%
  • The situation is alright as it is at present.

    24 32.43%
  • I do not have an opinion on this matter.

    4 5.41%
  • Other.

    5 6.76%
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Thread: The Schleswig-Holstein Question

  1. #1
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    The Schleswig-Holstein Question

    Schleswig-Holstein’s position between two seas offers advantages that the locals have always known how to exploit – starting from the Vikings, via the whalers on the North Sea Islands and Hanseatic merchants, through to lively trading from the Baltic Sea ports in this day and age. The people in Schleswig-Holstein and Scandinavia have something in common: their composure, openness to the world and solidarity.

    http://www.schleswig-holstein.de/Por...ple__node.html

    Timeline

    9th century

    The Danish Kingdom borders on the Frankish Empire (roughly modern Holstein)

    12th century

    Schleswig becomes a Danish, Holstein a German duchy

    18th century

    Under Frederik IV (1773) the two duchies become Danish territories

    1864

    Denmark loses the war against Prussia and Austria, and so has to relinquish the two duchies. Nordschleswig (Sønderjylland) becomes Prussian property. Holstein falls to Austria. Schleswig-Holstein becomes a Kondominium (joined governance over an area)

    1867

    Schleswig-Holstein becomes a Prussian province

    1920

    A vote is taken by the population of Sønderjylland. The majority of the people vote to be part of Denmark. The border between Denmark and Germany changes to present specifications.

    Political History

    When Denmark ruled over the two duchies, Schleswig and Holstein, the political fusion was a Personalunion (relationship between separate, sovereign states). Schleswig and Holstein were often parceled between royal lines (http://www.genealogy.sh.de/history/e/history.htm) However, each ruler would implement the laws and agreements of the Personalunion. They all would adhere to the same person as their head of state, the King of Denmark. The duchies were administered by the “Deutsche Kanzlei” in Kopenhagen.

    Language

    With the integration of Schleswig-Holstein into the Prussian state, the question of nationality was raised again and became the reason of much dispute. The language of the educated was German. Since the Reformation an education was a German one. The language of the people is "niedersächsisch" (low German). In the Frisian districts of Schleswig approx. 28,000 speak Frisian, in the north of Schleswig, except in the cities, people speak Plattdänisch (a form of Danish dialect). Here for approx. 110,000 people Danish is the language in church and school. (see Staatshandbuch für die Herzogthümer Schleswig-Holstein). In 1832 the Danes ordered Danish to be the judicial and administrative language where it was spoken in churches and taught in schools. In Sønderjylland (Nordschleswig) Danish news papers and libraries and an institution of higher learning (Rödding) were established. In 1840 Danish was the official language. By 1848 the border between the Danish and German languages became that of today’s political border between the countries. In 1867 the “language border" between the German and Danish ran roughly north of Viöl to Joldelund and Oeversee, but the political border lay further north.

    When Prussia occupied the northern part of Schleswig-Holstein in 1865, Sønderjylland became part of its territory. German became the administrative language, especially in cities like Hadersleben, Apenrade, Tondern and Sonderburg.

    With the establishment of the German Reich in 1871 it became obvious that Sønderjylland (Nordschleswig) was to speak German. Beginning in 1878 German was taught in schools. In the 1880s the Danish culture withdrew into the private sector, but not for long. Cultural and material support from Denmark produced more self-assurance and new institutions. The spirit of the popular vote as expressed in paragraph 5 of the Peace of Prague in 1866 intensified in Sønderjylland as the people struggled for a solution to the question of nationality. On June 15, 1920 Nordschleswig became Danish, including the German speaking areas of Hardersleben, Apenrade, Tondern and Sonderburg. Nonetheless, there are to this day German and Danish minorities in both Sønderjylland (Nordschleswig) and Sydslesvig (Landesteil Schleswig).

    https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Sch...rman_or_Danish

    What do you believe about the Schleswig-Holstein question? Should it be Danish, should it be German, or should it remain as it is nowadays?


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

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    I say it should remain as it is now, I see no need for a border correction.
    When men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men.
    “Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.” Brendan Behan

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    12th century

    Schleswig becomes a Danish, Holstein a German duchy
    A German county, actually, which the King of Denmark received in 1460. In his function as Count of Holstein, in 1476 elevated to Duke of Holstein, he was a liege man of the Emperor and an immediate prince of the Reich.

    1920

    A vote is taken by the population of Sønderjylland. The majority of the people vote to be part of Denmark. The border between Denmark and Germany changes to present specifications.
    North Schleswig: 75% Danish
    Central Schleswig: 80% German

    The outcome of the plebiscite triggered a constitutional crisis in Denmark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    Should it be Danish, should it be German, or should it remain as it is nowadays?
    The conflict has been resolved to our satisfaction and there is no sense in renewing it.

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    I would be interested to hear the other side of the argument too: the motivations of those who voted that Schleswig-Holstein is rightfully German/Danish. Thank you.


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

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    The romantic in myself who hopes for a constant expansion of Germany would hope to say that all of it were rightfully German. On the other hand, pushing that border farther north would inhibit a brother folk, rather than a stranger folk, in their right to living space.

    Since a plebiscite was held in 1920 and the resulting border is remarkably close to the real ethnic boundaries, the situation has been resolved most favourably in a question that was long a source for dispute between Germanic nations and regions.

    As such, I see this question resolved and view their own plebiscite much in the same light as the Carinthian plebiscite of 1920: It will be evident that some of either group voted to be part of the other country, but in the end, it is the people who decided which country they wished to be part of: Therefore, they should be made to live with their choice, whether for good or for ill.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    The romantic in myself who hopes for a constant expansion of Germany would hope to say that all of it were rightfully German. On the other hand, pushing that border farther north would inhibit a brother folk, rather than a stranger folk, in their right to living space.

    Since a plebiscite was held in 1920 and the resulting border is remarkably close to the real ethnic boundaries, the situation has been resolved most favourably in a question that was long a source for dispute between Germanic nations and regions.
    What do you believe the real ethnic boundaries would be? Could you be more specific and describe them?


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

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    It's rightfully German to me. I support my own people. But it's not a priority and since the Danes are Germanic and close to us it's not a big tragedy, like the territories occupied by the Poles, Russians or Czechs.

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    Friesland is Friesland

    Part of the territory in question is the northern third of Friesland. Frisian is spoken there, and street signs bear both the Frisian and the German language. It doesn't matter what modern nation-state claims their territory, the Frisians, whether technically residing in Germany or Holland, will always belong to Friesland. The houses of Schlesswig-Holstein, Romanov, and Windsor ultimately arose from the House of Oldenburg, a part of Ost Friesland.

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    Schleswig-Holstein is rightfully German, as the majority of our people feel and have ever felt that they belong to Germany, and that is what matters to me. Holstein even was part of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation. I also have way more German ancestry than Danish and don't speak Danish (well, I understand them though, for I speak a bit of Norwegian).

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    This isn't anything to do with rightful ownership. Denmark should get it simply because there are far more Germans than Danes.

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