Results 1 to 4 of 4

Thread: Neanderthal Clavicle

  1. #1
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    May 2004
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Flemish
    Country
    Flanders Flanders
    Gender
    Posts
    5,484
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    14 Posts

    Post Neanderthal Clavicle

    Voisin, Jean-Luc. 2004. Clavicule : approche architecturale de l'épaule et réflexions sur le statut systématique des néandertaliens. Comptes Rendus Palevol 3(2): 133-142.

    Abstract:

    Les clavicules des hommes modernes, des néandertaliens et des grands singes présentent des morphologies distinctes, caractérisant l'architecture de leur épaule. En particulier, la morphologie claviculaire des néandertaliens, en vue dorsale, montre que leur scapula était plus haute par rapport au thorax que chez l'homme moderne, ce qui expliquerait leur extrême longueur. Par ailleurs, il existe, pour ces caractères, un gradient est–ouest allant vers des formes de plus en plus « néandertaliennes ». Ainsi, plus les individus sont occidentaux, plus leurs caractères néandertaliens sont prononcés. Les néandertaliens pourraient alors être définis comme une espèce polytypique par spéciation géographique à chevauchement circulaire.

    Mots-clé: Neandertal; Taforalt; Clavicule; Épaule; Spéciation; Adaptation; Forces de jet; Maroc

    Abstract
    Clavicle: shoulder architecture and thoughts about the systematic of Neanderthals.

    The clavicle morphology in dorsal view, which is associated to shoulder architecture, is different in Neanderthals, great apes and modern humans. Its morphology shows that the Neanderthal scapula was in a higher position in regard to the thorax than in modern humans, which thus explains its extreme length. Moreover, among Neanderthals, there is an east–west gradient for several characters. In other words, the more the individuals come from the west part of Europe, the more their characters become Neanderthal. Thus Neanderthal man could be defined as a polytypic species with a geographic speciation by circular overlaps.

    © 2004 Académie des sciences. Publié par Elsevier SAS. Tous droits réservés

  2. #2
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    May 2004
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Flemish
    Country
    Flanders Flanders
    Gender
    Posts
    5,484
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    14 Posts

    Post Re: Neanderthal Clavicle

    If asked what conclusions can be drawn for the Mount Carmel finds, hybridisation winning out from extreme regional variability or even unreducible seperate species, then the answer lies in this article and the one on introgression(http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthre...882#post115882).

    The Neanderthaler's variance allowed some subgroups to follow a parallel course into a more "modern" sapiens state, opening a niche wherein the possibility to mate with archaic homo sapiens could erupt and by way of introgression the Carmel population emerged.
    A similar high variablity could also exist among the archaic sapiens, but in the end the two species became interchangeable.
    So both progressive evolution and hybridisation played an important role in the advancement of modern man and with a reasonable consistent chance to by uniting both factors.

  3. #3
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, September 5th, 2008 @ 06:36 AM
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Posts
    4,095
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    17
    Thanked in
    16 Posts

    Post Re: Neanderthal Clavicle

    Coon says Neanderthal clavicles are distinguished by their straightness in his summary of their post-cranial skeletons.

    Your mention of the Palestinian alleged sapiens/Neanderthal people is interesting in the sense that the Western Neanderthals are much more extreme that the Eastern ones.

    As early as 100,000 years ago, Qafzeh 9 turns up in Palestine. This individual was completely sapiens, if African-looking. It was long-faced, long-headed, and prognathic. Coon says there is nothing more dissimilar than a Negro and a Neanderthal. If there was hybridization between a Qafzeh-type sapien and a Neanderthal population, one would expect a long-headed, long-faced, relatively low-headed, moderately prognathic population to result from simple combination of characteristics. This is what we have in Shanidar, Skhul 4 & 5, Predmost 3, and Amud. Also, some latter Western Neanderthals also exhibit these features to a lesser extent. This indicates to me a hybridization of people in that area of the Near East with the resulting population being called Generalized Neanderthal or Eastern Neanderthal. This population apparently lasted until a second sapiens invasion from Iraq.

  4. #4
    Disinterested
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 13th, 2005 @ 09:17 PM
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Politics
    Folkish
    Posts
    1,403
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post Re: Neanderthal Clavicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff
    As early as 100,000 years ago, Qafzeh 9 turns up in Palestine. This individual was completely sapiens, if African-looking. It was long-faced, long-headed, and prognathic. Coon says there is nothing more dissimilar than a Negro and a Neanderthal. If there was hybridization between a Qafzeh-type sapien and a Neanderthal population, one would expect a long-headed, long-faced, relatively low-headed, moderately prognathic population to result from simple combination of characteristics. This is what we have in Shanidar, Skhul 4 & 5, Predmost 3, and Amud. Also, some latter Western Neanderthals also exhibit these features to a lesser extent. This indicates to me a hybridization of people in that area of the Near East with the resulting population being called Generalized Neanderthal or Eastern Neanderthal. This population apparently lasted until a second sapiens invasion from Iraq.
    What do you think, about Saccopastore?

Similar Threads

  1. Neanderthal: 99.5% Human
    By Blutwölfin in forum Anthropogeny & Ethnogenesis
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Sunday, November 19th, 2006, 05:25 PM
  2. Are you part Neanderthal?
    By Loki in forum Anthropogeny & Ethnogenesis
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Friday, August 25th, 2006, 04:58 AM
  3. The Neanderthal Question
    By Bismark in forum Physical Anthropology
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: Monday, January 24th, 2005, 05:27 AM
  4. Neanderthal Psychology
    By Frans_Jozef in forum Psychology, Behavior, & Neuroscience
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Sunday, May 2nd, 2004, 10:13 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •