Reason and Miscegenation

[Lautum Dia]

Ladies and gentlemen, this is my first post to Skadi so let me introduce myself. I am relatively new to WN, coming from a leftist background. Just to be clear, I still consider myself a mutualist anarchist but have always despised Marxism, Postmodernism, Multiculturalism and similar kosher ideologies. Anyway, I always try to be reasonable and so I've been convinced of the need to preserve western culture, and European homogeneity in particular. That's my story and I assure you I'm no troll even though you may not like the following ideas regarding miscegenation.

To begin, I must say that this issue seems to pop up over and over on every WN forum There are those enraged by the subject who want to keep bringing it up and those that want to bury it, thinking it is bad PR for the movement. The vast majority of the posts have been white males upset about black males with white women. To my mind it's a natural feeling for any red blooded white male competing for mates. Then it comes to asian women and white males and of course it is a different story. White males (like myself if you haven't gathered) get a sort of contrived hatred of this phenomena going (which is actually more prevalent statistically than WF/BM) but it's not real hatred. That comes a bit from the women but women of course do not show hatred and anger quite as vehemently as a young man. There is some serious hypocrisy in some of the males that want women to not even have thoughts about BM while they openly admit to their lust for AF. For these men, I'd like to apologize to the women in this forum. They are simply ruled by emotion more than a healthy person should be.

To provide some examples of the way white males and white females act on this subject in a neutral way I will offer two links with asian females and males discussing the same subject. Read them because they are very telling and have an uncanny similarity with the way the more militant white male WN's respond to this issue.

Asian XO

Model Minority Page

Moving on. The previous paragraph is really nothing new but as far as I've seen no one ever tries to explain this behavior rationally. The statistics show a sociological phenomena in this area that is quite interesting. The two largest areas of miscegenation are clearly WM/AF and BM/WF. Most other types are rare and statistically quite small. A clue to the cause for this can be garnered by trying to picture an asian man with a black woman, the rarest of all inter-racial relationships. The asian male is clearly too small for most black females and black females are too beastly for an asian man (or any man if you ask me). Intelligence is reversed, as we all know, east asians have the highest IQs and blacks the lowest. However, intelligence doesn't seem to play the predominant role in choosing a mate. The predominant role according to many studies are almost always physical characteristics. Women prefer bigger, stronger, more robust, but of course not excessively stupid males. Men prefer more feminine women as a general rule. Blacks are obviously bigger and stronger than whites and whites more so than asians. In reverse asian women are the most feminine, the most estrogen (black males the most testosterone). So it should be clear what is happening hear with miscegencation. The white women and white men are meeting black men and asian women at the extremes of their phenotype.

The people who should be most pissed off in all this are of course asian males and black females. My presumption is that the means (averages) of the races will stay with their own. So far unless your a totalitarian there is really no way to criticize these personal choices. Now you may be asking how can I be a white nationalist and not want to oppose what is causing us to lose our racial phenotype. Well, I am indeed WN and the reason is definitely because I dont want to see whites disappear. However, what is called for is an adequate political solution since we have an paradox here. The paradox being that no one wants to lose the racial distinctions, even blacks and asians believe it or not and yet no one wants to limit peoples freedom of choice. My political solution, which you will all hate, is as follows. BTW, it's also what has convinced me of the justness of WN. Asians have a vast homeland that is relatively homogenous and will not in the near future allow huge numbers of immigrants. Similarly the negros have Africa which is their home territitory. The Americas and places like Australia are too far gone for anyone to claim as an ancestral homeland and thus are perfect for those that have already miscegenated or those that prefer to. Europe is the only exception. For those that want a white homeland just like other races have, there is rapidly diminishing hope. It's only fair, if asians and africans have home areas, for whites to also. Yet we are the only group that is having that choice taken away from us. So for me anyway, preserving the European continent as the white homeland is THE WN priority. Yes, I realize this division of races is overly simplistic, but within Euope and asia and africa i believe in self determination for any ethnic group.

I am not a supremacist nor do I think such an ideology even makes sense. I'd rather preserve the races. Who wants to get rid of blacks in africa anyway They've provided generations of whites with a much needed source of comic relief. So one might ask how I would support whites over others if I think each race has attributes worth saving. Well, besides BEING white, I actually do think whites are better, but not w/o context. Whites are the golden mean of races. I think that is the source of the genius of western culture. Asians are extreme in logical/mathematical ability, yet these yellow hordes know little in the way of aesthetic value, freedom, democracy, or other creative endeavors. Blacks on the other hand are physically robust, in order to survive on a truly dark continent IMO, and they do have some creative abilities it seems, though in terms of the logic/reason ability of asians, they are dumb as dirt of course. Whites, are the golden mean here, the best whites are physically robust, creative and adventurous as well as extremely intelligent. As for societies as a whole any white can contain any number of these positive traits leading to a fluid division of labour. To use the rather apropos example to demonstrate the golden mean, a man like Aristotle could not have been produced by the negros for the obvious reason that they are too, to put it euphemistically, dull. Similarly, Mongoloids have had no Aristotle because Aristotle wouldn't have been prized by asians unless he stopped thinking independently, glorified all known conventions and gave any female progeny of his to the emperor. I'm sure you get the point. This is why I'm a white nationalist, and from a historical point of view who should'nt be in jaw-dropping awe not only of men like Aristitle, Locke, Descartes, etc. but also of the general societies themselves where ideas like individual rights, respect for labour, etc. brought light to a dark world.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the nature of miscegenation and one possible political solution to saving white/western culture. I'm sure none of it is all that original and it is certainly not detailed and exhaustive as a proper study would be, so be easy on me.

[Odin Of Ossetia]

Interesting.


Can you enlighten me on who are the best Whites (thus, from your own standpoint, "the best of the best").


Strong Slav Males get preferential treatment:


http://michalw.narod.ru/SlavicSpain.html



I hope I'm Slav enough.

[Lautum Dia]

Well, the best ethnic group is clearly Norman/Germanic Slavs are great athletes and beautiful women among many other charming qualities.

But seriously, I don't get into this sub-racial debate much. as I think the Euro sub-races are very similar. Culture is far more important, and being basically the same extended family, they all have made great contributions.

[Nordhammer]

The vast majority of the posts have been white males upset about black males with white women. To my mind it's a natural feeling for any red blooded white male competing for mates. Then it comes to asian women and white males and of course it is a different story.

Most people, male or female of any nonblack race, see black-white relationships more repugnant than Asian-white relationships. Blacks are phenotypically and genetically more distinct and more distant from whites. As Cavalli-Sforza said, the biggest difference is between blacks and everyone else.

White males (like myself if you haven't gathered) get a sort of contrived hatred of this phenomena going (which is actually more prevalent statistically than WF/BM) but it's not real hatred.

Source? Depends on the demographics of course. Marriage is more often between WM-AF, and it's more difficult to record short-term relationships, as is usual with WF-BM.

Many people find Asian-white couplings more forgivable than black-white couplings. So the hatred is justified, as white women "ruin" themselves as a future mate.

There is some serious hypocrisy in some of the males that want women to not even have thoughts about BM while they openly admit to their lust for AF. For these men, I'd like to apologize to the women in this forum. They are simply ruled by emotion more than a healthy person should be.

Trying to score some points?

It is not equally hypocritical though. If white men felt BF-WM relationships were okay, then I would agree. However, as noted above, the majority of people don't place the same dislike with blacks and Asians. There are some females here who also find some Asian men or men of Asian and white ancestry to be attractive. Obviously they too are "hypocritical" in your sense since they don't find mulatto males attractive as they do hapa males like Keanu Reeves or Brandon Lee.

The two largest areas of miscegenation are clearly WM/AF and BM/WF. Most other types are rare and statistically quite small.

You forgot the Hispanic category, which is usually mestizo, though often includes minor Negroid along with it. Hispanic males and white females occur probably more often than Hispanic females and white males, though both occur at significant levels. An example is Jeb Bush, Dubya's brother, who married a triracial mongrel and had children that look nothing like him.

east asians have the highest IQs and blacks the lowest.

East Asians don't have the highest IQs, just a higher average IQ. The highest IQs in history belong to white men. Which is an argument that AF-WM relationships are more dysgenic for the white race, as we more often lose good men to such a thing than we do losing quality white women to black men. We lose many high quality white females to Jewish males though.

The predominant role according to many studies are almost always physical characteristics. Women prefer bigger, stronger, more robust, but of course not excessively stupid males. Men prefer more feminine women as a general rule. Blacks are obviously bigger and stronger than whites and whites more so than asians.

Depends on if one is pursuing a short-term or long-term relationship. Intelligence is much more important in a long-term relationship, and probably why Asian females like white males, as they seem more long-term oriented.

You can read about mate preferences here:
Female
http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=11151

Male
http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=11152

In reverse asian women are the most feminine, the most estrogen (black males the most testosterone). So it should be clear what is happening hear with miscegencation. The white women and white men are meeting black men and asian women at the extremes of their phenotype.

Culturally more feminine perhaps.

Black females have the most estrogen (stronger bones), even after menopause.

The people who should be most pissed off in all this are of course asian males and black females.

I disagree, white racialists should be the most pissed off, as our nations are the ones being ruined.

My presumption is that the means (averages) of the races will stay with their own. So far unless your a totalitarian there is really no way to criticize these personal choices. Now you may be asking how can I be a white nationalist and not want to oppose what is causing us to lose our racial phenotype. Well, I am indeed WN and the reason is definitely because I dont want to see whites disappear.

If you don't oppose interracialism then I don't see how you're a white racialist.

Asians outmarry at nearly 50%, as do Jews, and in some countries like Britain, nearly 50% of black males are with a white female. So I disagree that the vast majority of people stay with their own.

However, what is called for is an adequate political solution since we have an paradox here. The paradox being that no one wants to lose the racial distinctions, even blacks and asians believe it or not and yet no one wants to limit peoples freedom of choice.

Actually blacks and Asians do prefer the Caucasoid form over their own. They want an admixed, "progressive" form of their own race, that is achieved by mixing with whites. I've heard many times in person blacks say, who even lament interracial relationships, that babies from white-black relationships are prettier. Asians too admire the Caucasoid form and have surgeries to make themselves taller, remove their eyefolds, and dye their hair blond and red.

We do want to limit the freedom to destroy our race. If people want to mix, they can emigrate elsewhere.

The Americas and places like Australia are too far gone for anyone to claim as an ancestral homeland and thus are perfect for those that have already miscegenated or those that prefer to.

No such thing as too far gone, unless everyone is mixed. Only a matter of what the people will do. In that case, you could say all white nations are "too far gone", since political opposition to our destruction seems very small and the majority of whites won't unite.

[Lautum Dia]

Most people, male or female of any nonblack race, see black-white relationships more repugnant than Asian-white relationships. Blacks are phenotypically and genetically more distinct and more distant from whites. As Cavalli-Sforza said, the biggest difference is between blacks and everyone else.

Source? Depends on the demographics of course. Marriage is more often between WM-AF, and it's more difficult to record short-term relationships, as is usual with WF-BM.

Many people find Asian-white couplings more forgivable than black-white couplings. So the hatred is justified, as white women "ruin" themselves as a future mate.

Trying to score some points?

It is not equally hypocritical though. If white men felt BF-WM relationships were okay, then I would agree. However, as noted above, the majority of people don't place the same dislike with blacks and Asians. There are some females here who also find some Asian men or men of Asian and white ancestry to be attractive. Obviously they too are "hypocritical" in your sense since they don't find mulatto males attractive as they do hapa males like Keanu Reeves or Brandon Lee.

You forgot the Hispanic category, which is usually mestizo, though often includes minor Negroid along with it. Hispanic males and white females occur probably more often than Hispanic females and white males, though both occur at significant levels. An example is Jeb Bush, Dubya's brother, who married a triracial mongrel and had children that look nothing like him.

East Asians don't have the highest IQs, just a higher average IQ. The highest IQs in history belong to white men. Which is an argument that AF-WM relationships are more dysgenic for the white race, as we more often lose good men to such a thing than we do losing quality white women to black men. We lose many high quality white females to Jewish males though.

Depends on if one is pursuing a short-term or long-term relationship. Intelligence is much more important in a long-term relationship, and probably why Asian females like white males, as they seem more long-term oriented.

Culturally more feminine perhaps.

Black females have the most estrogen (stronger bones), even after menopause.

I disagree, white racialists should be the most pissed off, as our nations are the ones being ruined.

If you don't oppose interracialism then I don't see how you're a white racialist.

Asians outmarry at nearly 50%, as do Jews, and in some countries like Britain, nearly 50% of black males are with a white female. So I disagree that the vast majority of people stay with their own.

Actually blacks and Asians do prefer the Caucasoid form over their own. They want an admixed, "progressive" form of their own race, that is achieved by mixing with whites. I've heard many times in person blacks say, who even lament interracial relationships, that babies from white-black relationships are prettier. Asians too admire the Caucasoid form and have surgeries to make themselves taller, remove their eyefolds, and dye their hair blond and red.

We do want to limit the freedom to destroy our race. If people want to mix, they can emigrate elsewhere.

No such thing as too far gone, unless everyone is mixed. Only a matter of what the people will do. In that case, you could say all white nations are "too far gone", since political opposition to our destruction seems very small and the majority of whites won't unite.

Some of your criticisms are correct but I don't think they deflect that much from my main point. Blacks are farther away in both phenotype and genotype but it's obviously not so far as to naturally limit miscegenation, as if they were actually some kind of ape. In terms of the future, black/white miscegenation is the low road, no doubt about it. If the entire world followed that pattern of mixing the mulattos would be an underclass and Eurasians the upper and middle classes. While this is true, I don't think that is how people choose their mates, as is evident by statistics on inter-racial marriage etc. BTW, my stats came from the US Census 2000 which I don't have but most of what I've read on the subject referenced the the latest census.

I think WM's find BM/WF relations more disgusting due to sexual competition. I would probably have a problem with a girl that slept with black males also. Luckily, I've never dated a girl who would even go near one. Nevertheless, the fact remains that some white females (perhaps ones at an extreme end of our race: bigger, more testosterone, etc.) are simply attracted to black males. Of all the excuses for this behavior that attempt to discount simple attraction, there is only one I've heard so far that does make some sense. That is, black males do hit on white females about 10,000 times a day and the form of the courtship is not exactly out of a romance novel either. At the end of the day though, there are still a lot of white women attracted to black males and they aren't thinking about the ugly babies they will have or the future class of mulatto failures they are helping to breed. It is simple attraction.

White men don't like black women because they are huge and probably have more testosterone than we do, lmao. The flow is the other way, toward asian women, while the flow of attraction is opposite for women to men. I don't want to be misinterpreted here. I think there is a certain % of whites at either end who will drop out and go for the other races. The majority will stay ultimately loyal to their major preference, whites. You bring up the fact that some white women find asian men or Eurasian men attractive. From my own experience, they rarely do, and they are a rarity in the stats also. The reason I most often hear is that they are too SMALL (body wise). This just happened at my workplace with a young white girl who was interested in me and an asian guy interested in her. I asked why she wasn't interested in the asian guy, since she is too young for me anyway: "because he's too small". No woman wants to feel like a giant around a guy lol. Now this was a really big woman (NOT FAT). She was pushing 6 feet tall and she is at the other end of the spectrum of the white phenotype, so it makes perfect since why she wouldn't be attracted to the asian guy.

I did't exclude Hispanics as they are very mixed and don't lend themselves to an easy analysis. Yes, East Asian AVERAGE IQs are higher and the white bell curve is more elongated and the highest individual IQs are white. WM/AF would be dysgenic for the top of that bell curve of course, but it would be better for the bottom of the bell curve. Jews I despise for their religion and culture, and I know I'm gonna get flamed for this one big time, but Jews are white to my mind and even if a muddied caucasian they should just be absorbed into the larger white population. More importantly, they need to totally lose their disgusting religion and culture.

You were correct on the estrogen, black women do have more estrogen, however Asians have the least of all hormones according to Rushton
http://www.harbornet.com/folks/theed...shton/Race.htm
which would mean asian women have the least testosterone. Either way, it's pretty obvious to me that asian women are at least more feminine than black women but I guess it depends on how you define femininity. White women would be in the middle.

When I said Black females and Asian males should be most pissed, obviously I meant in terms of sexual competition, which they seem to lose out on. In terms of politics whites do have a lot more to be pissed about as we are the only ones having our homeland taken from us. I never said I was a white racialist and in the way most here define it, I'm probably not. If by that term, it is meant that there are significant and appreciable racial differences, then I am a racialist. But how does that mean I have to oppose peoples freedom to choose their partner??? I am a WN and I want a political solution to the problem of our diminishing existence. Telling whites not to be attracted to other races is a backwards and shallow way to preserve our race, and furthermore, IT DOESN'T WORK. This is why, as I stated before, we should concentrate on saving Europe as an all white homeland. This political solution is fair, practical and still possible without a massive social engineering program.

Blacks and asians do prefer many caucasoid traits and my personal bias is that we are the most aesthetically pleasing. However, just as Asians want to get rid of the epicanthic fold, blacks want to straighten their hair, whites and Asian males for example want to have more muscle mass like black males. Does that means black males are superior HA!! The golden mean my friend, that's what is superior. I think if we did a Rawlsian type experiment with race and people had to choose what race they were going to be before they were born, they would almost always choose white. Lets see do I want to be a big dumb ape, a small slavish (no offense to my slav friends gook or a dynamic balance of those extreme traits. I know which I'd pick. I agree with you that if people IN EUROPE, our homeland, want to mix, they can move elsewhere.

I'm optimistic by nature and I really think there will be a backlash in Europe. Euros are begining to realize that you can't reproduce Western Civilization with Muslims and tribal Africans, no matter how tolerant you are. Another option for America is simply to move to the whitest areas, which are inevitably the best areas anyway, so a no brainer. I live in, what I think is still the whitest state, VT, and it's like a utopia up here. Similarly, the upper midwest, northwest, the rest of northern New England. I suggest any white nationalists move to these places. I probably did it subconsciously because I chose a place to live that reflected my values.