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Thread: Groupthink

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    Jack wrote;

    Some of these free spirits use their ideas to take over leadership of the mass. They become the leadership. In psychology there's a phenomenon known as groupthink, that basically when groups are formed towards a certain end, the people are more interested in getting consensus quickly that getting the right solution. And so it isn't really hard for a few individuals to propose some seemingly radical ideas, push for them hard and win over a chunk of people. They can then use peer pressure to bring the rest into line. I'm sure people here can agree that this is what the modern left is doing - this idea was proposed by an Italian Communist called Antonio Gramsci - he called it the "Long March through the institutions".
    This is an excellent elucidation of the most basic example of the divide and rule principle used against a herd. People largely fail in any endeavour because they insist on trying to do everything at once. 'Conquering' one element at a time, or taking one step at a time, is the most effective way to do anything - whether baking a cake or controlling a populace.

    After this revolution of values, so to speak, we'll have the political revolution, the unification of the West, and heads will roll. After that I believe that society will fall into place, so to speak, and whites will go back to being who they truly are. There won't be a "Good and Evil" - there will be a Good and Bad - the difference is this: Good and Bad for what? For the individual's will to power, for his inner character. Combine and undistort the will to power of the West from Jewish and foreign influence and control, and we have total mobilization. Empire.
    Good, I was looking for a way to explain Nietzsche's going 'Beyond Good and Evil' principle in a few words.

    Of course, white youth don't want to be feminized men, and because there's no obvious alternative, they turn to the opposite - the ecstatic soul of black culture and music. IMO, that's why rap is popular, and why its "cool" to be a wigger. Its reaction.
    Interesting, like you I would never endorse that subculture but I have noticed that boys heavily into the type of rap that glorifies gangster toughness, being the most terror-inspiring one around, being utterly fearless and prepared to fight or die at a moment's notice, do possess an extremely deviant form of some 'warrior virtues.' I'm not sure, though, how many of these could ever be won over to any sort of WN stance.
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, May 11th, 2004 at 04:27 PM. Reason: split thread
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    I highly doubt that would be possible - because of its origins, there will NEVER be a White/European Nationalist rap subculture. We have punks, wiggers, skinheads and goths.

    I'm trying to figure out a few things: can you identify a subculture by its spirit? Example: rap = black ecstatic, punk = rebellion, skinhead = passion/energy, goth = self discipline/destruction. What is the most useful? As we know, the youth subculture most closely linked to WN is the skinhead movement. Rap is impossible to be assimilated into a white/Eurocentric meta-culture, and I think because punk is inclined to revolt against EVERYTHING - hence the effective influence of the anarchist movement over the punk subculture - I do not believe a white/eurocentric meta-culture could aquire influence over the punk subculture. Punks however can be absorbed into the skinhead subculture easily enough, and from there, WN leanings can be easily enough to bring in.

    What of the goths? Sure, white face paint, black clothing, and yet... almost all goths are white. Goth subculture evolved out of the darker side of European culture. And yet there is almost no effort for the white/euronationalist movement to appeal and recruit?

    Maybe this is saying something of the origins of nationalism - it was always a straight, total-mobilization ideal, it never really had to deal with the scale of Culture distortion we face today. And yet this 'clean' mentality is something we've inherited from Germany's NS movement, from Fascists (both British and Italian), but it is entirely unsuitable for us to carry this with us as the core of our identity, I think. We have social decay, massive divorce rates, money-chasing consumers, massive youth suicide rates and social breakdown. Put simply, the WN/EN movement is still a middle-class phenomenon.

    This might seem to contradict what I've said before of the warrior-elite virtues, but I think being 'clean cut' isn't as useful as most people think it is. The Revolution of Values (keep in mind values define the actions, actions define the politics) will not hit breaking point for another 10 or 15 years. Who is going to be the street fighters then? White youth. We need to be able to identify with them right now, and our influence over a large section of the skinhead subculture is evidence of that, and of our breaking away from the businessmen-middle class image of white/european nationalism. Yet most White/European nationalists still hold to it. We need numbers and organisation and street power. "He who controls the streets controls the politics" - Adolf Hitler. Sure, we need an over-reaching superstructure (in the marxist sense) for our own movement but WE NEED A BASE FIRST. The base must be white youth, it must be built of multiple subcultures and not just the skinheads, and the ideal preached must approach the warrior-elite mentality combined with my "Perspective for a European Nationalism". This prevents things from getting too complicated, and it makes dealing with politics easier given we can dodge blatant collectivism yet still uphold the power, unity and identity of the Europe-West Cultural bloc.

    As I said, we need to identify and gain the respect of white youth of various subcultures - skinhead, punk and goth - not nessecarily get nice suits and go appeal to money from businesses, telling them their taxes will increase as more foreigners breed. This is obvious. Yet this is what we should want. Worse is better. Let's make it clear - if the economy crashes THAT IS GOOD. But it won't happen for a while, and the ticking time bomb is running parallel with the Revolution of Values. Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed, and it will hit the fan. When it does, the Europe-West Cultural bloc will need to be united at base level, the Revolution of Values will reach its final stage (values to actions to politics) and Ragnarok will come. But we must shake off the pure 'clean cut' image and start appealing to multiple areas - businessmen, yes, intellectuals, yes, middle classes, yes, blue-collar workers, yes, white youth, yes. Not just the middle class.

    Perhaps the WN/EN movement doesn't view the goth subculture as a recruiting ground - they might see them as pathetic, self destructive kids. Sometimes this is more closer to the truth than not. Yet I don't think this is appropriate - as I've mentioned before I know quite a few Goths who would better be described as "gothskins" - self destruction is turned into self discipline, given a white/euronationalist ideology and the skinhead spirit of energy is combined, you've got good fighters. I know this personally. This, I think, is far more likely to show off the "Warrior virtues" I've described above. I think it makes large scale evolution - personal evolution - to the übermensch possible.

    I do not believe the rap subculture - and its white elements, aka wiggers - display any sort of warrior virtue. There are three types of fighters - savages, which is what rap represents - barbarians, aka skinhead fighters - and professionals like the Roman legions. The parallels between rap and the savages of Africa are quite obvious - sex and violence, prime motivations, no organisation, ecstatic energy, these "fighters" are entirely UNSUITABLE for any sort of white/euronationalist meta-culture. This subculture was built out of degenerate black youth. I don't intend to "put down" skinheads at all, but the parallels between skinhead street fighters and the Vandals that torched Rome seem obvious. Little organisation, lots of energy. I don't know how to put this nicely but the professionals I see are the gothskins I know. I think we need more of these people.
    Last edited by Jack; Sunday, June 22nd, 2003 at 05:15 AM.
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    Post Re: Groupthink

    I discuss the concept of 'groupthink' in my thread entitled 'Necessary Domination';
    http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=6999
    Here that notion is elaborated on in relation to the Leadership Principle.

    Jack says above; "Put simply, the WN/EN movement is still a middle-class phenomenon".

    That is not true in Britain, where it is still very much a working-class phenomenon.
    The British middle-class are opposed to anything which may elicit 'passion', and so may 'frighten the horses'.
    Indeed, middle-class mores has it that discussion of politics and religion is Verbotten!

    So the anti-nationalist establishment in Britain is essentially middle-class [and tries to preach its creed via falsely 'working-class' organs such as The Sun newspaper].

    The project seems to be [here in Britain at any rate] to transform everyone into the 'middle-class' - this is Blair's New Labour vision!
    No more beastly nationalism, and everyone is 'equally' middle-class.

    I believe that the pop sub-cultures discussed above are not very significant as they tend to be manipulated by the anti-nationalist establishment and are by definition transient.
    REAL culture must be LASTING and so cannot be 'fashionable/unfashionable'.

    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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