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Thread: English Origins: Y Chromosome Evidence for Anglo-Saxon Mass Migration

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch View Post
    One thing I try to take into account with Englishmen is their surname and their county of origin (and also where the surname originates), and I have also noticed that many celebrities called English actually have non-English surnames. So I leave such people out of the equation.

    There is a curly haired, hook nosed type in the British Isles which probably came from around Spain/North Africa; it seems to be not uncommon in Western England but probably much less common in the central and especially eastern parts, and this is to be expected considering their probable place of origin.

    I don't think Ulster is any blonder than other parts of Ireland, and Protestant Church of England adherents there are no blonder than Catholics, and if I remember rightly, they are in fact, somewhat darker eyed.

    Black hair is found in 10% of Welshman, between 4 and 5% of Englishmen, 4% of Scotsmen and Frenchmen, and probably something similar in Ireland.
    So certainly Wales has a considerably higher proportion of jet black hair (and brunet skin and eye colour) than England, but it is also blacker haired than Scotland, Ireland and France.

    In some western counties of England I think the percentage is 10%, and in Devon, more than 10.

    I'm not sure exactly what your definition of Nordid is, but if you mean relatively long-headed and faced, tall and slim, with light eye and skin colour, and hair colour anything short of black, then I would agree that England is strongly Nordid.

    I also agree that individuals with olive skin, dark eyes and an Ibero-Insular morphology are a relatively small minority in most of England, however, there are a number of other Mediterranid types in all of the British Isles.

    But one must note the morphology as well, and at least in Ireland and Western England, most people seem to have some traits from one or another of these Mediterranid types or from Dinaric, even though they have light skin and eye colour. So fully Mediterranid individuals are in a minority, but the Mediterranean influence is overall quite strong.

    I think Litoroid individuals can be found in all parts of England, but perhaps only significant in some areas.

    The English are relatively fair haired on average in comparison to Southern Europeans, but fair/blond hair is certainly not predominant in England.

    I doubt that any one type is in a majority in England.

    Coon said that the Celtic (or Keltic) Iron Age type is predominant in England, Ireland, and I think Scotland and Wales as well (but less common in the latter and almost non-existent in North-East Scotland). However, I don't think he meant that it is in a majority, but rather that it is the most common type.
    When he said the Germanic Nordic element is distinctive in England I think he meant it is more common there than in the other countries of the British Isles, because I think I remember he also said that the Atlanto-Med is distinctive in Wales, and yet Atlanto-Meds are still less common there than the Celtic type.
    Wales is not darker-haired than France, but is as a whole darker-haired than England similar to Ireland. Obviously more than 20% of the Welsh are blond-haired and the most common eye color in Wales is blue (45% confirmed by ScotlandDNA project 2014) and depending on the definition 10-15% of Welsh people have red hair (Eupedia). This is higher than in any nation outside of Ireland and Scotland. Welsh people are most similar to the people of Ireland and Highland Scotland. Approximately 60% of the Welsh have light hair (red+blonde+light brown shades) and over 75% have light eyes (blue+green) as most Britons, comparable to nations in Northern and Central Europe. The "Atlanto-Mediterranid" type is very rare in Wales, more proper for the Iberian Peninsular where less than 20% have blue eyes, less 1% have red hair and usually less than 15% are blond-haired.
    % blue eyes in Wales (45%) is very comparable to some other European nations:
    Denmark = 50.9%
    Latvia = 46% (32% bluish-gray and 14% blue)
    Switzerland = 28%
    France = 20.2%
    Portugal = 9%

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    Here is a great video on why it is accurate to call the English "Anglo-Saxons". They most certainly are.

    What does it mean to be English?

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    It's not that Frisian contributions were especially important, only that Frisian investments were largely independent of other concerns. Jutes were being assimilated by the Danes and Saxons were fighting for supremacy in Germany, but only Frisians remained distinct enough without any direct relationship to other purposes. Flanders essentially got wealthy as a go-between England and Friesland, with merchants shipping to and fro along the coastline. It could be said that the Franks got somewhere above their fellow Germanics by parasitically draining the Anglo-Frisian economy into their own pockets--skimming off the top, as it were.

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