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Thread: Varg Vikernes and His Musical Performance: Satanism? [Split]

  1. #11
    Senior Member Hyperboreanar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Okay, let's see clear: you never listened to a single Burzum song, you dont know what black metal is about, but you assume the song, which has the only text line 'aaarrghhh', is the proof of Varg being a satanist. Cool.

    ''The First Wave of black metal refers to those bands during the 1980s who pioneered the black metal sound and formed a prototype for the genre.''

    ''The term "black metal" was coined by the British band Venom with their sophomore album Black Metal (1982).''

    Venom's logo is a Satanic Baphomet and their first cd:



    So this doesn't look Satanic?

    Songs on Album:

    "Sons of Satan" - 3:38
    "Welcome to Hell" - 3:15
    "Schizo" - 3:34
    "Mayhem With Mercy" - 0:58
    "Poison" - 4:33
    "Live Like an Angel (Die Like a Devil)" - 3:59
    "Witching Hour" - 3:40
    "One Thousand Days in Sodom" - 4:36
    "Angel Dust" - 2:43
    "In League With Satan" - 3:35
    "Red Light Fever" - 5:14

    So none of these songs look Satanic?

    ''Another pioneer of black metal was the Swedish band Bathory, led by Thomas Forsberg (under the pseudonym Quorthon). Not only did Bathory use low fidelity production and anti-Christian themes, but Quorthon was the first to use the "shrieked" vocals that came to define black metal.''

    Bathory's first Cd:

    Bathory (self-titled debut) Released 1984

    Songs:

    Storm of Damnation (Intro)" – 3:06
    "Hades" – 2:45
    "Reaper" – 2:44
    "Necromansy" – 3:40
    "Sacrifice" – 3:16
    "In Conspiracy with Satan" – 2:29

    Again, do none of these songs look Satanic?

    ''Other artists usually considered part of this movement include Hellhammer and Celtic Frost (from Switzerland), Sodom and Destruction (from Germany), Bulldozer and Death SS (from Italy)''

    One of Hellhammer's demos:



    Satanic rites?

    There first demo also contained the song: ''Power of Satan" – 4:09 and the cover art of a Satanic Goat.

    I'm sure you should now understand, Black Metal's origins were 100% Satanic.

    On the subject of Varg, he played bassist on the Mayhem album De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas which translates as Lord Satan's Secret Rites... yet you are still denying Varg was involved in Satanism

  2. #12
    Senior Member Hrodnand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperboreanar View Post
    ''The First Wave of black metal refers to those bands during the 1980s who pioneered the black metal sound and formed a prototype for the genre.''

    ''The term "black metal" was coined by the British band Venom with their sophomore album Black Metal (1982).''

    Venom's logo is a Satanic Baphomet and their first cd:



    So this doesn't look Satanic?

    Songs on Album:

    "Sons of Satan" - 3:38
    "Welcome to Hell" - 3:15
    "Schizo" - 3:34
    "Mayhem With Mercy" - 0:58
    "Poison" - 4:33
    "Live Like an Angel (Die Like a Devil)" - 3:59
    "Witching Hour" - 3:40
    "One Thousand Days in Sodom" - 4:36
    "Angel Dust" - 2:43
    "In League With Satan" - 3:35
    "Red Light Fever" - 5:14

    So none of these songs look Satanic?

    ''Another pioneer of black metal was the Swedish band Bathory, led by Thomas Forsberg (under the pseudonym Quorthon). Not only did Bathory use low fidelity production and anti-Christian themes, but Quorthon was the first to use the "shrieked" vocals that came to define black metal.''

    Bathory's first Cd:

    Bathory (self-titled debut) Released 1984

    Songs:

    Storm of Damnation (Intro)" – 3:06
    "Hades" – 2:45
    "Reaper" – 2:44
    "Necromansy" – 3:40
    "Sacrifice" – 3:16
    "In Conspiracy with Satan" – 2:29

    Again, do none of these songs look Satanic?

    ''Other artists usually considered part of this movement include Hellhammer and Celtic Frost (from Switzerland), Sodom and Destruction (from Germany), Bulldozer and Death SS (from Italy)''

    One of Hellhammer's demos:



    Satanic rites?

    There first demo also contained the song: ''Power of Satan" – 4:09 and the cover art of a Satanic Goat.

    I'm sure you should now understand, Black Metal's origins were 100% Satanic.

    On the subject of Varg, he played bassist on the Mayhem album De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas which translates as Lord Satan's Secret Rites... yet you are still denying Varg was involved in Satanism
    I thought we were having a debate here about Varg and his musical performance and not about black metal in general.
    But anyways, the whole term black-metal is already debated, some earlier british bands like Venom state until the very present day that the norwegian scene actually "stole" the term and transformed it into a whole different concept than it already was. On the other side a lot of Norwegian bands deny the fact that they would have been creating their music after Venom. However what is sure is that we have two different scenes :

    During the 1980s, certain thrash metal bands established a prototype for black metal. This so-called First Wave included bands such as Venom, Bathory, Hellhammer and Celtic Frost.

    A Second Wave emerged in the early 1990s, which consisted primarily of Norwegian bands such as Mayhem, Burzum, Darkthrone, Immortal and Emperor. This scene developed the black metal style into a distinct genre.

    It's quite obvious that you don't understand what black metal is about, and instead of judging by the covers I suggest you to deal with it considering that it's an honest form of art and expression. Judging the covers and song-titles literary is the "worst" thing one could do when dealing with black metal.
    :Überschöpfung:



  3. #13
    Senior Member Hyperboreanar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrodnand View Post
    It's quite obvious that you don't understand what black metal is about, and instead of judging by the covers I suggest you to deal with it considering that it's an honest form of art and expression. Judging the covers and song-titles literary is the "worst" thing one could do when dealing with black metal
    The band that gave name to Black Metal was Venom, and this was a satanic band.

    Varg in Venom Shirt:



    Varg in Von Shirt:



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_(band)

    Von's only cd release is called Satanic Blood Angel abd their first demo was called Satanic Blood



    As i keep saying it's all Satanic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Blood_Angel

  4. #14
    Senior Member Hrodnand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperboreanar View Post
    The band that gave name to Black Metal was Venom, and this was a satanic band.

    Varg in Venom Shirt:



    Varg in Von Shirt:



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_(band)

    Von's only cd release is called Satanic Blood Angel abd their first demo was called Satanic Blood



    As i keep saying it's all Satanic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Blood_Angel

    I see, but don't skip this :

    When I started Burzum I hadn't even heard about Venom, so naturally Burzum is not - like some have claimed - influenced by Venom, in any way. When I drove home after "sword" fights, listening to music, I listened to a demo tape of Paradise Lost, released in 1989 or 1990 I think, Bathory's "Hammerheart" and "Blood. Fire. Death", the Old Funeral demo tape, called "Abduction Of Limbs" (...), Pestilence (a Dutch Death Metal band, as far as I remember) and some other underground Death Metal bands that I don't recall today, I listened to underground house and techno music (although only when I was alone, because metal people don't seem to like that kind of music) - and of course I listened to Burzum. The other guys liked Entombed and Morbid Angel, but I have never liked or listened to that. Nobody listened to Venom, by the way, but in late 1991 we began to listen to our old Celtic Frost, Destruction, early Kreator ("Pleasure To Kill" and "Endless Pain") and (the older) Bathory records as well, that we all saw as Thrash Metal, by the way. Entombed and other trendy Death Metal crap was forgotten by then. I know the guys in Emperor listened to Merciful Fate and King Diamond instead of, or perhaps in addition to, the bands I mentioned above, stuff they had listened to in the 1980ies, so there was no theory that You had to listen to this or that band. We listened to whatever we liked. In 1992 I (and at least one of the Emperor guys) also began to listen to Dead Can Dance, "Within The Realm Of A Dying Sun" and similar music. We were all simply tired of all the boring, trendy and unoriginal hordes of Death Metal bands that produced tons of crappy albums that all sounded the same, and we went back to what we had listened to before or found other music to listen to. Of course I also kept listening to the good Death Metal releases, like the Paradise Lost demo I mentioned above, and I know the others kept listening to Morbid Angel's "Altar Of Madness", and Deicide (when they released their debut album, in 1992 I think).
    http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/a_..._story01.shtml


    and this:


    I am even accused of having read La Vey's "Satanic Bible". They even interview people about these guys and their philosophies as if they played a role in the so-called "Rise Of The Metal Underground". Now tell me; do they know if I have read books by these men or not? They could have asked me, of course, but instead they just assume I and everybody else have. Well, just like I have never listened to Venom I have never read "The Satanic Bible" or any other books by La Vey. I have read a booklet by Crowley once, unfortunately, but that's all. It was a load of crap, and I find it immensely suspicious that the authors "forget" to tell or fail to find out that Aarseth, I and everybody else in the Norwegian Black Metal scene in 1991 and 1992 despised both Crowley and La Vey and everything they stood for! We didn't even need to read their books to realize that they were a waste of time, and our views on this were never a secret - indeed everybody in the metal underground knew our views on this! DSP - Mayhem's own record label - even used pictures of La Vey with a line over his face (a prohibition sign over his face) on at least one of the records they released to express their contempt for him (I think it was my own "Aske" EP by the way). Why? Because Aarseth too thought La Vey was nothing but an American capitalist pig! I am insulted by the fact that they list some American clown like La Vey, or some pervert mental case like Crowley, as an influence to anything I have ever done or said!

    ...

    Another point in this book review would be that the Black Metal scene I was a part of was born in late 1991 and died in early 1993. That is like a one and a half years period in the lives of the people involved. It all happened at least eleven years ago. From 1993 Black Metal became something else, something created by the stereotypes and lies of the media and made into the gutless and commercialized scene we see today. It became something that had little if anything to do with the Black Metal scene I was a part of. The reason for that was not my interview with that newspaper in January 1993, but the fact that the media didn't want to listen to my explanation to this horribly bad interview or to what any of us had to say. Everything became distorted beyond recognition by the journalists and ended up like the messy crap presented to us in "Lords Of Chaos".

    ...

    The magic was necessary only because I wasn't satisfied with the real world. There was no adventure, no fear or trolls, dragons or undead creatures. No magic. So I figured I had to create the magic myself. It was very sad to see that this magic was ruined or at least reduced in 1993, when the media started to write about it, and a lot of former country, rock and Death Metal bands in Norway suddenly dyed their hair black and started to wear corpse-paint and play Black Metal; to become famous, to make money and to get laid - and not to change the world. They didn't seem to think about magic, that is for sure, but in their defense I must say they weren't shown much magic either. The media twisted everything beyond recognition, like they always do. The new bands made Black Metal become a part of the modern world, rather than revolt against it, like they should have done. Maybe they felt attracted to it because the magic worked, because they felt attracted to something that was special. I don't know. I just know that I don't appreciate what it has turned into; just another unimaginative "sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll" subculture in and a part of the modern world. It has become part of the "bread and circus" of the oppressors - it has become a part of the problem.

    ...

    I mentioned Venom and the fact that I never listened to their music. In fact the only person in the whole Black Metal scene in Norway who had listened to Venom was Aarseth (although he still claimed he liked them a lot I - luckily - never heard him play any of their records). Everybody else in the scene either hated Venom or didn't even know who they were. As an example I can tell that the first time I even heard about them was in 1991! So contrary to what the authors claim, with the possible exception of Aarseth, not a single soul took Venom seriously, not a single soul was influenced by Venom, not a single soul even liked Venom - and that includes Hellhammer of Mayhem too (Necrobutcher wasn't a part of the scene at the time, as he had a break from playing music). Still they keep nagging about Venom throughout the book, and list them as some sort of origin to the whole movement and the ideas it was built upon. The fact that I wore a Venom T-shirt in court does not change this fact. I wore it because it had the text "Black Metal", and for no other reasons.

    ...

    My hope would be that Burzum could inspire people to wish for a new and better reality in the real world, and hopefully do something about it. Maybe revolt against the modern world, by refusing to participate in the rape of Mother Earth, by refusing to participate in the murder of our European race, by refusing to become a part of any of these artificial media-created "rock'n'roll" subcultures, and by building new and healthy communities, where the Pagan culture - and magic if You like - can be cultivated.

    http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/lo...s_review.shtml
    :Überschöpfung:



  5. #15
    Senior Member Hyperboreanar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrodnand View Post
    Varg Vikernes Interview 1992:

    What do you think about satanism when organisations like the Church of Satan has made satanism so "acceptable", and what are your views on the occult art in general?

    So-called Church of Satan is not in my views a church of Satan...It's rather a humanistic individualistic organisation who worship happiness and life (for them it's only this life). All occult, philosophy, lore, science, wisdom, bla bla bla is interesting...I am a teosof in many ways. I try to know it all (teosofi is a wisdom religion who worship(if you can call it that) wisdom. Of course I use all my wisdom to spread evil and sorrow and hopefully death. I worship death, evil and all darkness. Hm...use the goodness on earth in evil purposes! And of course the evil....

    http://www.angelfire.com/nh/carpathi...um_inter01.htm

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    Senior Member Rik's Avatar
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    Black Metal is know for shocking. Satanism and other "Evil" is their main instrument for that.
    Don't take it too seriously.
    "There are no races, only countries of people Chuck Norris has beaten to different shades of black and blue."

  7. #17
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Why do you want to judge about a genre you dont know at all?
    What do you want to 'proove' with that?

    What has Venom, Celtic Frost, Kreator (thrash metal) to do with 'Norwegian Black Metal' or 'Northern Black Metal'? Those are complete different genres, they have almost nothing in common, beside that they fall under the general term 'extreme metal'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperboreanar
    Varg Vikernes Interview 1992:

    ...Of course I use all my wisdom to spread evil and sorrow and hopefully death. I worship death, evil and all darkness. Hm...use the goodness on earth in evil purposes! And of course the evil....[/B]
    Evil and sorrow. That is not satanic. Sorrow for sure is not satanic, and that is what Burzum is all about: sorrow. Death and darkness.

    You really should learn to distinguish the meaning of words/things before you start to judge about things you first of all dont know and second, sorry to say that, but obviously are unable to understand at all.

    Evil can come in many shapes, Loki was evil if you want, Thor and Odin were evil in times, the general human is often evil. Charity can be evil. Christianity is evil. Evil is not satanic. That are two very different things.

    Death and darkness I'm not even starting to try to explain, because it's pointless on you.

  8. #18
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    Occultism, neopaganism, and satanism is a parody or inversion which is designed to deceive and lead people astray. You cannot trust anything their adherents say. There is no actual doctrine, it is meant to change into whatever form is desirable at any given moment.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Hyperboreanar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Why do you want to judge about a genre you dont know at all?
    What do you want to 'proove' with that?

    What has Venom, Celtic Frost, Kreator (thrash metal) to do with 'Norwegian Black Metal' or 'Northern Black Metal'? Those are complete different genres, they have almost nothing in common, beside that they fall under the general term 'extreme metal'.
    I appear to know more then you and yes i don't like black metal.

    You say Norwegian BM had nothing to do with Venom...

    yet look at one of the first Nowergian BM bands...

    Mayhem? Heard of them? I'm sure you have:

    ''Mayhem was founded in 1984 by guitarist/vocalist Øystein Aarseth (aka Euronymous), bass guitarist Jørn Stubberud (aka Necrobutcher), and drummer Kjetil Manheim (aka Manheim). The band name is taken from the Venom song, "Mayhem with Mercy."

    I don't think you can argue with this one

    As i said BM originated from Satanism. Clearly you can't accept this as you are a heathen or a ''heathen athiest'' (? whatever that is) but please just accept BM started as satanic, it's the truth.

  10. #20
    Hundhedensk "Friend of Germanics"
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    BM didnt start out satanic, Venom themselves only used it for the image, as have almost all blackmetalbands.

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