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Thread: Ansu / Aesir

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    Senior Member Airmanareiks's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Ansu / Aesir

    Ansu means spirit in proto indo german.
    this means that the Aesir were pie.

    If the ansu/aesir was pie, then Odin is the allfader or Dyeus pitar/zeus/jupitar. All ie religion is derived from ansu.

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    Senior Member Hrodnand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airmanareiks View Post
    Ansu means spirit in proto indo german.
    this means that the Aesir were pie.

    If the ansu/aesir was pie, then Odin is the allfader or Dyeus pitar/zeus/jupitar. All ie religion is derived from ansu.

    It's theoretically true, but the ansu/aesir, I mean the term, I see it rather as another branch of the great Proto-Indo-European cultural "tree", than the spiritual essence of all Proto-Indo-European cultures.
    :Überschöpfung:



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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    The Aeisir are found in the Indian vedas. Known as Asuras. The non-Aryan people (modern Indians) came to demonoize them over time but originally they were good.

    Odin is unique to Germanics and not found in earlier work. Though his more proper name is Wodan. Though Wodan again is akin to Jupiter in some ways and a term of spirit. Likewise what I understand the word Asura relates to astrology in old Aryan. Again we go back to sky gods, representations of planets etc. This overlapped with ancestor worship as it was believed that the stars were our ancestors and that we would return to and become stars ourselves one day.

    The Aesir probably relate to the influence of psychic forces from space and the study of the heavens which was the most important science in the old days. It's akin to Taurus, Pisces etc. We give animal and human characteristics to certain heavenly events and bodies.

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    Senior Member Imperator X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    The Aeisir are found in the Indian vedas. Known as Asuras. The non-Aryan people (modern Indians) came to demonoize them over time but originally they were good.
    The Asuras were not demonized by non-Aryans. The Asuras were always considered generally malevolent by the Vedic Aryans. Vedic Asura is related to Old Persian Ahura which means "spirit", but to the Persians were good spirits i.e. Ahura Mazda "Wise Lord."

    There is an h--->s systemic correspondence between Persian and Vedic respectively, i.e. Ahura ---> Asura, Homa (sacrificial drug used in Persian rites) ---> Soma (sacrificial Vedic drug)

    There are examples of beings that were considered bad by the Persians being considered good by the Vedic Aryans and vice-versa of which Asura/Ahura is a good example. Other examples include: Indra to the Persians was an evil spirit (daeva), in Vedic myth Indra is king of the gods (devas). This has nothing to do with admixture with other peoples.
    SVMDEVSSVMCAESARSVMCAELVMETINFERNVM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airmanareiks View Post
    Ansu means spirit in proto indo german.
    this means that the Aesir were pie.

    If the ansu/aesir was pie, then Odin is the allfader or Dyeus pitar/zeus/jupitar. All ie religion is derived from ansu.
    Actualy Odin had replaced Tyr as the headgod. Wich was part of the way Germanic society had evolved around the time of the Roman invasions.

    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    Odin is unique to Germanics and not found in earlier work.
    I need to reread some books. But that is not completly true. I remember reading about an early Hindu god that shares many similarties with Wodan. But like I said I have to reread some books for more details.

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    Senior Member Airmanareiks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    Actualy Odin had replaced Tyr as the headgod. Wich was part of the way Germanic society had evolved around the time of the Roman invasions.
    .
    Tyr is derived from Tiw from Tivar.
    Tivar is akin to Devas or Gods.

    Odin is Tyr in that he is called:

    hangatyr
    haptatyr
    etc......

    PIE is 7,000 years old which is how old Odinism. Odin came from Asia, brought his kin (ansu aesir) and gave Europe their Languages. (snorri edda).

    Tyr came later is just an aspect of Odin or Germanic Godhead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airmanareiks View Post
    Odin is Tyr in that he is called:

    hangatyr
    haptatyr
    etc......
    Reread the section in the Snorri-Edda dealing with that. It does not state it is the same. But it states that is possible to refer to a god using to name of an other god and then ad an atribute of the god you refer to it.

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    Senior Member Ashera's Avatar
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    "Good" and "evil" are not very useful as epistemological concepts, since they refer to moralistic paradigms, and these are always relative.

    If I study "religious" conceptions I always ask for their final cause, this is: what do they aim at, what is their purpose, beyond all glittering propaganda?

    And here the first question always must be: do they lead to better living conditions, to more freedom, or to more destruction and slavery? And if so, who is the profiteer of all that hustle and bustle?

    Then, considering the sources, we have to take into account, that very much that we seem to know about "Aryan" gods and goddesses has come to us via Arabic translations. And here it is good to know that certain Arabic dialects could for instance not distinguish syllables like "se" and "su".

    So we can conclude that often different concepts were merged simply by translation errors - or one of the concepts was discarded in favour of the seemingly similar other. We cannot imply any valuations, based on these facts.

    Humans like to think in simple oppositions because it makes life easy and saves the trouble of autonomous thinking.

    Complementary thinking is far more complex and involves intellectual effort.

    And, in no case we should forget the Roman strategy to erode the native concepts by equating them to their own gods/goddesses - and finally imposing their representations on the ones of the (to be) assimilated territories.

    Ashera

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    Slightly off topic but it has always occurred to me; where was Asgard?
    Heimskringla locates it far away in Asia.

    Studying potential Indo-European candidate prehistoric settlements; my best guess for a settlement of size and significance has come to be Ashur in modern Iraq. (NB This part of Assyria became Semitic only in 2000bc.)

    This was the ancient capital of Assyria in its Indo-European infancy. (Q: Were the early Assyrians the Aesir? does the name relate to metal workers? Eisen.
    The city at the earliest time (3000b.c), was dedicated to the godess Ishtar (who was characterised by a great necklace (Brisngamen) and chariot drawn by Lions- attributes of freya, i.e an earth godess. The city was later renamed Ashur after the sky God (Asur was an Indo-European sky god that travelled in a solar disc)
    I remain intrigued by the possible links between historical charcters of Mesopotamia and Northern Europe. E,g kings like Asurbanipal (king of the Aesir?) and Esarhaddon are reputedly semitic but their statues don't really fit the criteria. Esarhaddon also apparently traveled far to the North, was a great military leader, always waging wars and later restored the Indo-European pantheon at Ashur. Q; Could this have been Asir--Oddon? Could this explain the suggested Asiatic anomaly in Odins charcter?

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    Senior Member Ashera's Avatar
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    Not off topic, forkbeard.

    First we should ask what "As" and "Asen" (both with a long "aa") mean. In German/Duitse language we still know and use the word "Aas", it means "carrion". And this meaning leads us far back in time, to a phase of hominization where our ancestors lived as gatherers and scavengers, following the wolves and the ravens as indicators of "aas".

    Seen this way Odin must be a very old deity, the first of the Asen, life itself, because Aas meant life, and life meant "breath", this is: Atem, Odem, Atman, Odin, Atum etc.

    The two terms "as" and "es" are identical. "Es" means "it". And from "it", the "as" - the nourishment - comes All.

    If this idea is plausible and the groups were not local and followed wolves and ravens, this concept could have spread anywhere. And then Asgard could have been everywhere and nowhere as well. Every good nourishing place as an Asgard populated with the company of heaven for a while.

    Possibly "As" and "Odin" are the most ancient concept of a "god" at all.

    .............


    Quote Originally Posted by forkbeard View Post
    E,g kings like Asurbanipal (king of the Aesir?) and Esarhaddon are reputedly semitic but their statues don't really fit the criteria.
    You follow and try to fulfill a definition. This way you produced a contradiction. The problem is not the "object" in consideration, but your ideological lense.

    Ashera

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