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Thread: Constructing a New Germanic Language

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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    Constructing a New Germanic Language

    I always wanted to work on a language project but I just don't know enough and its too much work. Like ways to improve the English language thus making a more logical version of it and secondly I was thinking of an idea for an Asatru ethnic language (besides old norse) where we take English and German (very similar languages) and make them into one language with English being the "high" language that is mainly for intellectual discourse, academia etc. and German the "low" language more appealing to the folk spirit, emotions, etc. First the two languages would be brought closer together so they are mutually intelligable. Partly by purging English of some non-Germanic elements but also simply on occasion choosing the best or favorite part of one language or the other as the official way. Then of course improving both if there is room for it and possibly room for some Latin influence or whatever in the higher version.

    The thing is I used to think English was a stupid language. Seemed awkward in some respects, the spelling is illogical, many rules don't make sense etc. Yet as I explored other languages I realized English seemed to me to be the superior language! Mainly in terms of richer vocabulary, more deeply analytical etc. The only languages in the world that seemed to come close to me were Latin, German, French, Spanish, and Italian. I'm no linguist so maybe I'm just mistaken. I mean other languages if you tranlate them word for word or just learn some of them they seem more primitive. It would be like the equivalent of black English or something. "I be's going here". That's literally how other languages are structured with very crude and unprecise grammar or with broadly emotional terms. They also have very small vocabularies. Just for example in Russian "yagoda" means berry or it could mean an apple or fruit. And the words often are very similar which makes it seem primitive too. Like in Russian Da is yes, darohga is a road darohgoi is expensive, droog is friend etc. just very simple sounds not arranged very creatively. I don't mean to pick on Russian I just have memorized the examples from there but almost all world languages are like that. Admittedly English has too many words and redundancy, but it seems superior. Even though in a few respects I do like German better or the old Germanic structure better or occasionally Latin.

    I think using primarily English as the starting point one could develop a superior language. I also think the dual ideal would suit a pan-Germanism or at least my own purposes well. Because I like the emotional aspect of German but also English has such a flat tone and is very analytical and cerebral- a very good literary language as well. It seems to show Germanic efficiency in the contractions and most of the words more so than mainstream German which seems more of a commoner language or emotional. You could get the best of both worlds to some degree with the high/low distinction. In regards to other Germanic languages I guess this is highly offensive and they do have their use as national languages and have their own beauty but they simply seem like more primitive variations/evolutions of the Germanic language. By using English/German you would have a very similar language that is a little more advanced. Which this is basically what has already been done with the creation of modern German being an artificial language by combining elements of the various dialects.

    It would be a massive project but I just thought that would be something cool to do. In the least one would have to be fluent in both German and English and have some basic linguistic knowledge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    secondly I was thinking of an idea for an Asatru ethnic language (besides old norse) where we take English and German (very similar languages) and make them into one language
    Why the need for an "Asatru ethnic language"? Even the claim that Old Norse should be our Holy Language, which is oft repeated is absolutely far-fetched. Our ancestors would have just held Blót in their own language, be that Old High German, Old English or Old Norse.

    Had our faith continuously existed, then we would have seen that perhaps whilst a few archaic words would have been retained for formality, most of the Blot would have been held in the language of the time. The Iceland-fetish of great numbers of those who never had an Icelandic ancestor just because those legends were best preserved is beyond me anyhow.

    In short: Why the need to create an "Asatru language"? Why not just use your own language at a Blot? Or do we really crave for the days when the priest spoke Latin and the people understood naught?

    with English being the "high" language that is mainly for intellectual discourse, academia etc. and German the "low" language more appealing to the folk spirit, emotions, etc.
    Please don't use absolutely misleading titulations. Low German is a geographical denominator, much like High German/Upper German would have been. But let's not nitpick at your formulation here.

    Again, I think that is an absolutely useless idea. Why would an Englishman find German more appealing to his folk spirit or emotions than his own language? And the same vice-versa.

    And creating one language as the academic language over the other would just again create the situation one had under the Normans: One language (then French) for the nobility and one language (then English) for the peasant. Hardly conducive to building a wider folk-consciousness and folk-collective.

    First the two languages would be brought closer together so they are mutually intelligable.
    It has taken 1,000+ years for English to shift so far from the Dutch-German dialect continuum ... it would take at least centennia to revert such a shift organically.

    Partly by purging English of some non-Germanic elements but also simply on occasion choosing the best or favorite part of one language or the other as the official way.
    We already have hundreds of Anglicisms in German, when a better German word exists. Likewise, the following is already a grammatically correct English sentence: A blitzkrieg over delicatessen such as schnapps and schnitzel in a kindergarten is verboten.

    If we allow our languages to move closer together again over time, then this could be very useful. Forcefully approximating one towards to other would only lead to confusion. Adding synonyms based upon the other language for some word could be a good way to achieve approximation organically.

    Then of course improving both if there is room for it and possibly room for some Latin influence or whatever in the higher version.
    Possibly room for some Latin influence? I thought you'd just proposed to purge English of non-Germanic influences?

    Because I like the emotional aspect of German but also English has such a flat tone and is very analytical and cerebral- a very good literary language as well.
    If English is the superior literary language, then why are most German loanwords to English complex concepts (Schadenfreude, Weltanschauung, Gleichschaltung, Blitzkrieg), whilst most English loanwords to German are rather practical concepts?

    Having an excellent command of either language, I tend to write my stories and a good deal of my poetry in English ... because in a literary sense I like its simplicity: Sometimes it would sound much too complicated in German, because it is a much richer literary language. If I favour a less heavy tone, then I use English --- if I wish for utmost sophistication and a more heavy tone, then I use German.

    English has more of a literary flow, but the high language of high poetry is still German.

    It would be a massive project but I just thought that would be something cool to do. In the least one would have to be fluent in both German and English and have some basic linguistic knowledge.
    I am overwhelmingly fluent in both, have some basic (actually, reasonably advanced) linguistic knowledge ... and don't think it is a ripe idea.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    I have a great deal of English heritage though I guess also German and Dutch and such yet I found myself really drawn to the German language. I was confused. Shouldn't English be more in line with my racial soul? Then I realized Old English was almost identical to Old German. Only German changed less- English was bastardized somewhat. Some changes were good I guess, but it seems something was lost to me.

    I like the duality simply because I like both. I like the flatness and formality of English with the folk spirit of German but you can't have both at the same time.

    I would like to seperate myself from the degenerate mainstream as much as possible. Language is one of the best tools to remain a "people apart". Soon Ebonics will become proper English. I see the language changes before my eyes mostly from media influences. I want to retain a more civilized and intellectual langauge for my home use. If you don't seperate the two soon your very thoughts are going to be in this dumbed down new English made by the degenerate masses. The dumb masses should not decide how English is spoken but the cultural leaders. In the past the "official" language came from the king or nobility. Now its being influenced by the lowest of society. I don't want my grand children saying "Iza bes goin to de sto. Wez dun speakum the old inglish. git wit de times grampa". I'm sorry but I guess we have to use this to get by in society, but I would like something to mark myself as distinct from society. I already have at least two ways I speak. I have to dumb myself down when in public. And I speak like a retard so people can understand me or don't think I'm strange.

    Secondly its a waste of time learning to spell words not how they sound and learning illogical gramatical rules which are force fed on you from preschool up.

    I noticed every non-white community seems to be held together partly by a second language. At least we could have one similar based on old English and Germanification.

    Simple fact is I think "Language" is an ugly word. Maybe use lingua or something. I would rather say "gemeinschaft" than community. It flows better- sounds better. I like some of the word order and how German works in your head in some cases. I also see English traits and wors I like better than German. "I" better the "ich" I guess. "thou" more the "Du".

    By Latin influence I mean some where it makes since. Here's an example, well besides obviously look at the spelling- how illogical it is, but here's another thing:

    Medical terms. Why say osteoperosis.? Why use Latin and Greek? Why not say Bone-breakdown? I guess we just have to sound smart and confuse commoners by having 100 words that mean the same thing. Why say dermis? Why not skin? Why not say Skinology instead of dermatology? Why say v*gina and not P*ss! Why say hematoma? Why not Bruise or blood leak? That's what I mean largely as far as purging out the non German. Though some of the more common words also unless they seem to do their job better than their Germanic counterpart.

    Not one language for peasants and one for nobility. Everyone should easily speak both dialects. In the same way you have a way of speaking at home or with your friends and a way you speak in school or at work. There is a formal and informal way. I find the Germanic languages especially to be so similar they hardly constitute languages. Maybe Swedish or something but mostly just the accents and such are different- the basics of the languages are pretty close. But nobody would have to use it unless they wanted to. As I said it would mark people for distinction.

    And I think being Asatruar makes me racially different from a Christian German. I believe culture is as important as blood. The community is important. I want to be completley seperate from the mainstream. I don't want outsiders speaking the same language as I do and considering it their "native" tongue. One reason why I don't learn German. So I can communicate with a bunch of Arabs and Negros? Come on. English is more or less the common tongue today. It would be nice for people in English speaking countries to have something that helps set them apart and give them pride in their heritage. This is why so many people today feel that "white" is bland or isn't an ethnicity. Thus all the wiggers and so on seeking some kind of uniqueness in this global society. English being a global language- I'd rather have a more tribal or ethnic language.

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    Senior Member Anfang's Avatar
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    And creating one language as the academic language over the other would just again create the situation one had under the Normans: One language (then French) for the nobility and one language (then English) for the peasant. Hardly conducive to building a wider folk-consciousness and folk-collective.
    Or the atempt to" create esperanto also comes to mind.

    It has taken 1,000+ years for English to shift so far from the Dutch-German dialect continuum ... it would take at least centennia to revert such a shift organically.
    But I like Germanic Multiculturalism! what would we do without danes speaking with marbles in their mouth like demostenes, or Prussians saying "Nicccchtttt" , English saying " Aint that the thing" or the Anglo-saxon descendants of the English speaking the Maine Dialect right here in the US?
    all of this is rich culture .





    English has more of a literary flow, but the high language of high poetry is still German.

    I am overwhelmingly fluent in both, have some basic (actually, reasonably advanced) linguistic knowledge ... and don't think it is a ripe idea.
    Damisher Bayer, wia hoach willst na no affe heit lol.
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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    I would preserve the various languages. I believe everybody or at least the majority should speak the common tongue (English) and then a language at home (what I would like to create for some speakers in English countries to use) and possibly learn another language on top of that to some degree just to be well learned and cultured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    Secondly its a waste of time learning to spell words not how they sound and learning illogical gramatical rules which are force fed on you from preschool up.
    On one hand you say you dont want the lower people to influence the language, and on the other hand you think it is waste of time to learn correct spelling and grammar?

    By the way, german grammar is highly logic, the problem is, that almost noone learns that properly, also because half the teachers themselves dont really understand it (what an alarming sign of degeneration). Same counts for english, english grammar is quite logic and it is a very nice language too, but I think in America it is much more degenerated than it is in Britain.

    The examples you brought up, using this word instead of that, ALL seems to me the more primitive choice.

    In generall I noticed (not meant as an insult) that you're on the same way as what you actually critisize.

    Anyway, yes, you're right in so far that german and english maybe are the most sophisticated languages, and I really see no reason to active degenerate it more than it already does by stupid people, our latest language reformation really is nothing else, the language is going to be adjusted to the stupid people.

    I've started to learn Norwegian, a language very similar to both german and english, even though it is indeed more primitive, more simple. For a german thinking mind it is sometimes like 'wow can it really be that simple?' I've had such thoughts several times. Does it make Norwegian to a 'poor' language? NO! Definitively not! It just works different, and it has an important merit to the form of the norwegian society <=> thinking world.

    The language reflects what people are, it is not only a tool to communicate and thus not simply replaceable or exchangeable.

    English has become the world language anyway, there is no need to construct another world language. Esperanto has failed, and I guess every other attempt will fail too, because an artificial language never can replace a living, a real used language, which has evolved over hundreds or thousands of years.

    In Norway 200 years ago some people tried to install an artificial made up 'real norwegian', but many people just refuse to use it (besides, I really understand that they refuse, nynorsk has no aesthetics, and it seperates the people, there are 'nynorsk communities/cities and bokmål communities, and some nynorsk people really go nuts about it).

    Or have a look at swedish, there was a large language reformation in the 1930 I think, in Sweden this is a living language and it has become a usable language again, read finnish newspapers in swedish (their second official language), it is absolutely terrible, artificial, stiff and lifeless, because they never use it as daily language.

    I think such a seperation between the daily used language (at home) and for official usage doesnt make much sense. Rather I'd prefer to educate people to be able to use the correct spelling and grammar of their language, instead of allowing it to be degenerated by uneducated people. And in addition teach children bilingual, starting in first grade or maybe even in kindergarten already.

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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    I want to spend my mental energies on something productive, not something arbitrary.

    Cat. Ceiling. Do you see something pointless here? Why not Seeling. ? Why not spell things how they sound? No it's not logical. The reason involves the history of English. We had multiple ways to spell things in the past- one region thought a C should sound like an S another region like a "k". Instead of picking one or the other they got blended. Why does knight and night sound the same but spelled different? Is that really a constructive use of time learning to mindlessly memorize illogical ways to spell thousands of words? The reason they are spelled different is the old pronounciation has changed. Admittedly languages change but there should be a standardized form or point of reference that is logical to begin with.

    People with English majors in College agree with me that the grammar rules are often illogical. And with German I don't see the purpose of assigning arbitrary gender to things. Why have four different words for "the"? It doesn't seem to serve much purpose, but maybe that's just my opinion.

    Again with German there are many things that are illogical. Words are not pronounced how they are spelled and such the same as English. This again comes from the creation of German by blending regional dialects.

    I am not saying to forget the other languages. Not saying they lack use. It would be nice to create something better when I can clearly see the possibilities right before me. It's just a matter of too big of a project for me to tackle as I'm already working on several other things.

    oh yeah, English itself is an "invented language". As is modern German to some capacity. Actually so is Spanish. Probably a lot of other language. In the past the king would usually make up rules and tell people how the language was going to be. This is where we get the term "the queen's English" in English. But also in other languages it was an even stronger tradition. Royalty just invented the modern languages, which are dialects or derivitives of older languages (such as spanish coming from Latin). With English some scholars tried to Latinize it in I think the 16th century?? 15th? Somewhere around there. They made up a lot of the absurd rules we have today. Shakespear himself invented a great deal of words that are in modern English and even twisted the grammar around a bit which has become the basis for how we speak today.

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    True, Shakespeare was mainly the one responsible to form a 'common' english (although his original writings are very similar to german). Goethe did that job for german. Yes, both our grammar, german and english, are very latin, and thus indeed highly logical.

    Now you can argue that latin is very complicated, which is true as well as it is true for spanish and french, which both resemble the latin forming of the words with adding the time and person to the end of the verb.

    English has been simplified already, stripping off whom, whose, thy, etc. Why not keep it and make the language richer? It got to be simple so that even the very last stupid can handle it. I cant see any 'improvement' here.

    Why have four different words for "the"? It doesn't seem to serve much purpose, but maybe that's just my opinion.

    Der, die, das, that's only three
    It is because things have a 'natural gender', a tree is male, so it is 'der Baum', a cat is female, so it is 'die Katze' and a car is a thing therefor it is 'das Auto'.
    I agree that it may seem too complicated or even superfluous, but I can say that I for myself, although I've never had problems to use the correct form and grammar anyway, really understood german when I learned latin. I had a great teacher who explained everything perfectly, not that sort of teacher letting you learn stupidly verbs or bs like that. So now guess which gender my teacher had? You see the flaw in here. In german I could have said 'ich hatte eine grossartige Lehrerin' and you would know from the start that she was a women.

    Other languages have other concepts of genders, in norwegian (all norse languages) there is an 'utrum' and a 'neutrum', the neutrum being the same like in german, things, and utrum covering male and female alike. Only reflexive pronouns differ between male and female.
    Very much similar to english, like in for example: the car, his/her Dodge, crashed into the wall and its (the wall's) debris fell down. The reflexive pronouns reflect the gender. Why not?

    For the spelling thing. Just think about the knight/night thing. It sounds the same, but when written you know immediately what the text is about, no need for guessing around which one is meant. A ceiling has nothing to do with seeing (which could be thought when written seeling), so why confuse people?

    In general I value the history of words or language in general, it is also a hobby of mine and it would be a mess when everyone would write how they 'like' it (and that would be the result of adjusting the spelling to the speaking).
    You see, I see no reason to change our german 'Phantasie' (a greek roots word) to 'Fantasie', just because there are people who cant remember the Ph. Or Rhythmus, also a greek roots word, now allowed to be written 'Rütmus'. Sorry, but that is just stupid. And ugly.

    The even more ugly thing is that our so-called Volksvertreter, the politicians, fail orthography test miserably, and unless there is a highly educated king or queen again, I would suggest, by all means, not to let decide the leading caste about spelling and grammar rules

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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    Just have words that don't sound the same. I see English de-evolving right now. For example route which I say it how its spelled is starting to be pronounced "root". Which we already have a word "root".

    Anyway no actually my point was many people can't speak English properly.

    I would bring back some older forms like in Biblical english- closer to German. I would just eliminate things that seem to have no use like arbitrary gender. I would keep gender where it has a purpose (his/her) basically the same as modern English.

    Besides the obvious potential for improvement- it's about setting yourself apart from others.

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    I'm going to have to burst your bubble. It's sort of pointless. Esperanto never was successful and a new Germanic language won't be either. Some people can't even speak their own language properly, let alone learn a new, constructed one.

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