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Thread: Constructing a New Germanic Language

  1. #21
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    There is a language project being done one Yahoo called Folkspraak (look under yahoo groups) which might fill the bill. It's based off of the commonalities between modern Germanic languages including the scandinavian ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    It is because things have a 'natural gender', a tree is male, so it is 'der Baum', a cat is female, so it is 'die Katze' and a car is a thing therefor it is 'das Auto'.
    Ha! How did I not notice this part of your post earlier - actually you've managed to pick one of the few masculina that is actually an old Neutrum. We see this in plural formation, which is where much of the confusion happened. The old plural of Baum is Bauma (that is before the analogy with the Umlaut as a plural marker), still visible in Bavarian dialect, where it is Baama.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd
    Ha! How did I not notice this part of your post earlier - actually you've managed to pick one of the few masculina that is actually an old Neutrum. We see this in plural formation, which is where much of the confusion happened. The old plural of Baum is Bauma (that is before the analogy with the Umlaut as a plural marker), still visible in Bavarian dialect, where it is Baama.
    It's a neutrum in Scandinavian languages too: et træ (ein Baum), træet (der Baum), mange træer (viele Bäume), træerne er grønne (die Bäume sind grün) (Danish).
    I think to remember that the northern German word was more like træ than Baum, but cant recall right now.

    There are many words that shifted their gender. Rivers used to be female, and many names of rivers are still female (die Donau, die Elbe, die Isar etc), through the Latin intrusion (the spirit of the) river became male and some rivers have male names (der Rhein, der Main, etc) too. This isnt orginal German though.

    Quec (Quell) originally was female, and all the spirits that used to "make" it were female, so everything that comes from a quec is also female (Fluss, Bach, Bergquelle). Interestingly, it now has both genders: "der Quell" but "die Quelle".

    Hochdeutsch and its following systemization has overwritten many of the original genders, and when you read older books, you might notice a lot of those shifts. Many of these are relatively new, around the 19th/early 20th century.

    We also used to have "som" instead of "wie" in comparisons, or the not flexing wáz (nhd) ("var" (past of er) in Scandinavian languages).

    So many changes, you could add countless examples of them
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    There are many words that shifted their gender. Rivers used to be female, and many names of rivers are still female (die Donau, die Elbe, die Isar etc), through the Latin intrusion (the spirit of the) river became male and some rivers have male names (der Rhein, der Main, etc) too. This isnt orginal German though.
    Donau isn't "original German" in the first place, very few river names actually are, and used to be male: Tuan(etymology unclear) + *aχwo "water"> 790 Tuanachgau (with the Tuanach). Roman: Danubius/Danuvius < Gr. Δανουβίος. Also mentioned as Ιστροϛ not only for the lower part but also the upper part.

    Isar: The often-cited "Isaras" refers to the Eisack (Isarcus) instead, but what we do find mentioned in the 3rd century is Iomisura, perhaps a hint for the Isar river (< iovis ys ura?) ... certainly it would seem possible though for the same old, pre-Roman, pre-Celtic motivation as in Isel, Eisack, IJssel, Isère, etc. It would come from IE *es- or *is- "flowing water"

    Certainly, neither river name is from a Germanic root. Actually relatively few rivers are, as rivers tend to keep their names for the longest, even much longer than settlements (where new ones may be added), and of course well longer than families. As such, all we can say from potamonymics is that they point to the first population in a certain area; for the area where this is remarkably Germanic, we can assume the Urheimat, this likely being Northern/North-Western Germany.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Donau isn't "original German" in the first place, very few river names actually are, and used to be male: Tuan(etymology unclear) + *aχwo "water"> 790 Tuanachgau (with the Tuanach). Roman: Danubius/Danuvius < Gr. Δανουβίος. Also mentioned as Ιστροϛ not only for the lower part but also the upper part.
    Wikipedia suggests that "Donau" has an old Celtic root:

    Die Donau ist weiblich wie die meisten Flüsse im Deutschen. Man vermutet, dass der Name Donau seinen Ursprung in der Sprache der Kelten hat, die einst am Oberlauf lebten. Belegt sind "dona-aw" für "tiefes Wasser" und "Do-avv" für "zwei Wasser", was sich auf die zwei Quellflüsse (Brigach und Breg) beziehen könnte. Auch unter Zuhilfenahme dieser Worte wurde eine indogermanische Wurzel *danu ‚Fluss‘ konstruiert. Verwandtschaft mit dem germanischen-ouwe ist möglich, eine Bezeichnung für Aue oder Flusslandschaft, ebenfalls weiblichen Geschlechts. In der Römerzeit hatte die Donau einen männlichen Namen, ihr Flussgott war Danuvius.

    In der Antike hatte die Donau lange zwei Namen: Ister, lat. Hister, griech. ῎Iστρος Istros war eine Bezeichnung für den Unterlauf, Donau hieß nur der Oberlauf. Dieses Wort steht zu einem allgemein indogermanischen Hydronym *heisr- ‚schnell, hurtig‘. Eine Assoziation der beiden Flüsse wurde erst um die Zeitenwende hergestellt, als das Römische Reich sich über den ganzen Donaulauf ausgedehnt hatte und die kartographischen Zusammenhänge erschlossen wurden. Noch bis zum Ende der Antike war Ister der Name des Flusses, Danuvius wohl als Flussabschnitt in Gebrauch.


    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donau

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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