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Thread: Separatist/Autonomous Movements in the Germanic Enclaves

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    Question Separatist/Autonomous Movements in the Germanic Enclaves

    I am interested in the separatist and/or autonomous movements that exist in Germanic enclaves such as Alsace-Lorraine, Silesia, South Tyrol, and so on. Could someone provide me with some information and/or links about these movements?


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    First of all you can´t compare Silesia or Sudetenland and Southern Tyrolia. In Tyrolia there were a large German majority even after ´45 and they finally gained an autonomous status in the 70´s. In Sudetenland most of the Germans escaped or were displaced in 1945-1948, a lot of people hated them and communist voices played also an important role. But any historical event isn´t just black or white. Since the middle ages Czechs and Germans lived together in peace, in 1918 Czechs gained an autonomy and Germans in Sudetenland became the citizens of Czechoslovakia (but they lived on the Czech ground every time!). Czechs (Slavs in general) were displaced from Sudetenland before WW2, Germans lost the war so they must went away much like Czech some years earlier...

    Resistance movements. I don´t think they are successful because their homelands don´t support their statements and often act contrary... There isn´t anything like ETA Only some small parties with small support. In my opinion nothing has changed until Germany doesn´t stop its policy of apologizing.

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    That is very true. Homelands of these countries don't support such movements, no matter how important they are to the conservation of the culture. I would imagine it is politically incorrect. : (
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    New Member Luka Schroeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    I am interested in the separatist and/or autonomous movements that exist in Germanic enclaves such as Alsace-Lorraine, Silesia, South Tyrol, and so on. Could someone provide me with some information and/or links about these movements?
    Greetings Dagna,

    Here are some useful Alsatians Links

    Elsässisches Sagenbuch

    http://sagen-elsass.blogspot.com/

    Fer's Elsass

    http://fers-elsass.over-blog.com/

    Unsri Heimet

    http://unsri-heimet.blogspot.com/

    Vosegus

    http://vosegus.eu/site/index.php?opt...per&Itemid=125

    elsass frei (video)

    http://www.wideo.fr/video/iLyROoaftIBU.html

    Elsass Frei

    http://elsassfrei.skyrock.com/

    Elsass Korps - Le Combat (video)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM26Dta6kTA

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    Member Faust's Avatar
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    Honestly this kind of activities doesn´t solve anything. Nowdays there is no Germany but only BRD. Germans culture disappeared shortly after 1945 and BRD culture is presents by Dieter Bohlen and Charlotte Knochbloch. BRD embodies everything what´s bad and shameful for me. Hartz IV for Sudetenland and Turks in Reichenberg? No, thank you.

    See also Heimkehr ins Reich movie. This was the time when rejoining Germany was still a great plan.


    A lot links are here

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    Some pics and videos about Alsace.







    This is not the flag of Alsace, Rot un Wiss, but the flag of the departements Haut-Rhin and Bas-Rhin:






    http://www.tvbvideo.de/video/iLyROoaftIBU.html

    There are several actions like adding roadsigns in Alsatian.
    http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/ope-panneaux/video/xum0z_ope-panneaux-alsace-fers-elsass_politics


    Freyes Elsass.mp3
    d´r Fahnenlied.mp3
    - in Standard German:
    d´r Fahnenlied - Hymne Elsaß.mp3
    - if someone wonders now why it is d´r (der) Fahnenlied and not das (masculine gender, and not neutrum), well the Alemanni language has an own grammar, even I make errors often enough...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    I have Norman heritage although not exclusively but I can still briefly explain the Norman situation.

    Normandy is very much francisized. The history of the Norman region can be briefly summarized : gallo-frankish people had settled in the region, then the Vikings raided Paris and obtained the duchy of Normandy from the King of France in exchange of converting to Christianity, and becoming vassals of the kingdom of France and defending the channel from future Viking invasions (which they did successfully). Many Norwegian and Danish vikings came to Normandy and settled there, mixing with the gallo-frankish population, assimilating with them. No Germanic language survived in this region as the Vikings were ready to adapt to the local culture for political and social reasons as they did in most European regions in which they settled. Ethnically, a Norman is Gallo-Frankish-Scandinavian. The regional language of Normandy is Franco-Norman, which is a Latin language very similar to old French, inherited from a few centuries of roman cultural influence (the ethnic influence of italic people is fairly small according to historians). Franco-Norman has hardly survived modern times. I doubt that there are many people left who speak it.

    Concerning Norman autonomy... France is quite particular in Europe. With the French revolution, France was centralized in Paris. Regional identities (Norman, Occitan, Breton, Basque, Alsacian...) were suppressed by the Republic which believed in "a nation, one and indivisible". This vision of the world is very leftist and universalist... most people would think it as a far right thing, but the fact of the matter is, universalism is originally a leftist and republican ideal, it suppresses racial and ethnic identities.
    Because of this history of republican "terrorism", France is hardly touched by independentist movements. Which isn't the case for Spain for example which has many autonomous regions. The fact of the matter is that France is very heterogeneous. Regions like Brittany, Alsace, Normandy, the Flemish North, the Basque countries, Nice country, the Catalan and Occitan regions, they all have personal identities very different from the dominant culture which represents France worldwide : the Paris region and its neighboring regions like Center, Loire Countries (Pays de la Loire), Bourgogne..etc...
    Because of the oppression of regional identities, there are hardly any autonomous regions in France. I believe Alsace is the only region which has a certain form of autonomy but it only concerns religious freedom. Alsace is separated from French laws of a secular state, which isn't really a good thing because it means that the state can finance the construction of religious buildings in Alsace, including Mosques, whereas in the rest of France, the law of 1905 separating the church from the state prevents public money from being used to construct religious buildings (like Mosques...).
    Anyway, independent feelings in France are only very strong in the island of Corsica, and to a very lesser degree in Alsace and Brittany. Most culturally distinct regions, like Normandy, only desire a certain form of autonomy but still feel attached to the French nation.

    One main struggle for Norman regionalists is the reunification of the two Norman administrative regions ("high" and "low Normandy") into one single historical and cultural administrative region "Normandy". This goal might be obtained in a near future as the French government wants to diminish the number of administrative regions in France to save money, and the reunification of the two Normandies is the most obvious one. Independent feeling in Normandy is extreemly rare, as Normans do tend to feel fully French, although they are aware of their affiliation with Vikings, as we can see with the numerous viking festivals in Normandy, towns which have viking-related monuments, and even local beers which carry viking-related names like "Thor".

    Here are norman regionalist websites, which to the mainstream media are affiliated to the far right:

    http://www.mouvement-normand.com/six_points.php

    http://www.vague-normande.com/

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    Senior Member Berrocscir's Avatar
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    As an Englishman I'm very interested in this subject. Tell me, does the Alsace group want more autonomy or to rejoin a greater Germany?

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    Norman is also a very strong bloodline in England. I have a lot of English names in my family, most of them trace back to Normans. Though from what I understand these were "black Vikings" having picked up a great deal of the native blood in them they aren't wholly Germanic. They have that Celto/Latin influence from the rest of France. But certainly more Germanic than other French groups.

    They probably should call the English Norman-Saxon or something. Norman-Celto-Anglo-Saxon. That would probably about cover it. Of course the Normans are actually from the Anglo side (Vikings).

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    I'm very interested in this theme too.

    I'm surprised no party from South Tyrol was mentioned.

    South Tyrolean People's Party



    The SVP represents the German-speaking population of the province, as well as the Ladin-speakers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_T...ople%27s_Party

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