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    Questions About South Africa

    The "Questions About [CountryName]" threads as created by Alfadir for Norway and by Eoppoyz for Sweden seems to be fairly popular, so I thought I'd do the same here.

    If you have general or off-topic questions about South Africa, Afrikaners, Anglo-Africans, or maybe even Namibia, ask them here and me or another SA member will provide the answers.

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    I am interested in German South-West Africa, its time in the Union, and the lingering effects this has on the relationship between the German Namibians and Germanics in SA. Is there cultural exchange, do they compare notes regarding the political situation in the region; and how is their situation compared to SA?

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    As far as I understand there's a big difference between the ordinary Bantu-Negroes and the Bushmen.

    What's the average white South African's oppinion about the Bushmen compared to the Bantus?

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    The Bushmen should actually be in control of SA, they were here before anybody else, the ANC would like the world to believe that the Afrikaners stole their land. They spread the BS as a fact, the truth of the matter is that the Afrikaners and the bantu met each other by mistake and fought over the land for generations. The bantu came southwards and the Afrikaner moved northwards from the Cape of Good Hope. We met and the rest is history, unfortunately the bushmen who lived here for thousands of years were left behind in any form of decission making. The ANC would like the world to know that they have lived here since the birth of Christ and that they have written documentation to prove it. Yeah right, they do not even have a scientific language, just listen to the masters speaking on national television and you can hear the Queen of England farting softly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    I am interested in German South-West Africa, its time in the Union, and the lingering effects this has on the relationship between the German Namibians and Germanics in SA. Is there cultural exchange, do they compare notes regarding the political situation in the region; and how is their situation compared to SA?
    I have to admit I know far less about the Germans in Namibia than I would like, especially regarding their place in the Union. Drawing from conversations with Namibian friends of mine (Afrikaners) I can at least give you a tentative answer on your last question: Germanics in Namibia, whichever their specific ancestry, are in a better situation than South Africans concerning both racial discrimination and crime. Apparently their government has pledged to immitate South African affirmative action policies, but it isn't as ruthlessly implemented as in SA. Also, I'm told it's comparably safer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liemannen View Post
    As far as I understand there's a big difference between the ordinary Bantu-Negroes and the Bushmen.

    What's the average white South African's opinion about the Bushmen compared to the Bantus?
    I wouldn't trust the average white South African to look beyond the classification of "black" and "white", but they are indeed quite different ethnicities. Partially to blame for not distinguishing between these groups are the Apartheid-era definition of Bantu, which was used almost interchangably with black. The Bushmen (Khoisan) are of little consequence, though - they number less than 100 thousand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rooikat View Post
    The Bantu came southwards and the Afrikaner moved northwards from the Cape of Good Hope. We met and the rest is history, [...]
    Indeed, Bantus are no more indigenous to these lands than Afrikaners.
    Last edited by Stormraaf; Friday, March 20th, 2009 at 09:25 PM. Reason: consecutive posts

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    There are a magnificent difference between Bantus and Bushmen. I am a Namibian born,whose family came back to South Africa after the bush war. The difference between them is not their skin but their cultural believes and respect towards nature.

    The Bushmen are the only tribe besides the whites in Africa that believed in a God. They even went as far as to create a Bushman translated bible to serve these people. When they kill something, they will thank the animal for giving up his life so that they can feed their families. Their survival skills are beyond any understanding as well as their respect towards nature and the animals living in it. They are world class soldiers that were used by the Apartheid government in the past.

    They do not rape, kill or disrespect any race like the Bantus who came and destroyed most of the original tribes and stole their woman to enlarge their own tribes. This is known history. They also keep up sustaining numbers in their tribes that the surrounding area can handle. They are not known for overpopulating. What the whites opinion are about them, I would rather have them around.

    Where the Germans stand in Namibia are as follows: the Namibian government did try and implement some form of affirmative action and land grabs that were stopped by the German government due to the Namibian economy relying on funds that they receive from Germany and a mutual agreement that they have with the German government. Namibia receives funding of more or less around 200 000 000 Euro per year from Germany that they desperately need as there are not much in Namibia they can build an economy on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by troepie View Post
    The Namibian government did try and implement some form of affirmative action and land grabs that were stopped by the German government due to the Namibian economy relying on funds that they receive from Germany and a mutual agreement that they have with the German government. Namibia receives funding of more or less around 200 000 000 Euro per year from Germany that they desperately need as there are not much in Namibia they can build an economy on.
    Though the Namibian government did buy out a lot of land in the north to give to the Ovambos, correct? The wetter Ovamboland, with its greater agricultural potential, is therefor no benefit at all to the country. The Ovambos don't farm commercially, but live from hand to mouth - they plan on nothing more than getting the day's eggs and milk from their animals.

    Hauke, I'm not sure that this would really count towards your question of cultural exchange, but the Namibian Germans have adopted some Afrikaans and English words from their fellow Namibian Germanics and "Germanised" them to properly fit in their vocabulary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraaf View Post
    The "Questions About [CountryName]" threads as created by Alfadir for Norway and by Eoppoyz for Sweden seems to be fairly popular, so I thought I'd do the same here.

    If you have general or off-topic questions about South Africa, Afrikaners, Anglo-Africans, or maybe even Namibia, ask them here and me or another SA member will provide the answers.
    There are a few questions in whose answers I'd be interested:

    1) Was there ever a white/European majority in South Africa or in some of its administrative units, provinces or states (Transvaal, Freestate, Cape, etc.), taking the whole history into account: from 1652 to the 20th century?

    If not, during which period were whites most numerous (as a percentage of the total population), and how many percent of the South African population were white at this time?

    2) What was the white : Indian : coloreds : black ratio in 1910 (the formation of the Union of South Africa), in 1948 (when the NP came to power), from 1958 to 1966 (the reign of Dr. Verwoerd), and in 1994 (the takeover of the government by the ANC)? How is the sitution now, 15 years after black rule? How many whites have left since then and how many millions do still remain in S.A. in absolute numbers and relative to the whole population? How many of them are Boers or Afrikaners, how many are British, and what's the ratio of other European minorities (Germans, Portuguese, Greeks, etc.)?

    3) What was the historical ratio between the British and the Boers during the course of time, and what is now?

    4) Do you believe that that the South African whites or the Boers as an ethnic group alone do have a realistic chance to ever obtain self-determination in the form of an independent Volksstaat again? How could this be achieved? Are you aware of any historical examples where a five to ten percent minority could manage to secede voluntarily or by force from a state in which it is such a small minority and in which it does not even possess a closed settlement area but is scattered throughout the country? It might be much easier if most Afrikaners or whites would live in a territory where they enjoy a clear absolute majority. This doesn't appear to be the case anywhere, though; they seem to be rather scattered throughout the whole Republic with some strongholds (Gauteng, Southern Cape?), but in these regions they are a clear minority, too?

    5) Do you think projects like Orania have a realistic chance to succeed in resettling millions of Boers or whites to the Northern Cape in order that they would enjoy a clear majority in this province or at least in a part of it? The Northern Cape is scarcely populated, ain't it?

    That the Boer or European minority could regain its power in the whole South African Republic appears to be even more unrealistic, doesn't it?

    6) Last but not least, can you tell us what happened in the years before 1994? I have heard many theories about traitors and immoral NWO collaborators who sold out the power to the ANC which was only years ago internationally still considered a terrorist organization by Britain, the U.S. and many other countries. Why didn't the NP declare a small part of S.A. to a Boer or European state, while it was still in power?

    And ... what will the future bring in your opinion? Zimbabwean conditions? Or national liberation? What are the odds?

    7) Are the farm murders still continuing? The media don't report anything about them anymore. Apart from breaking ever new crime records, how has the life changed since 1994 (both for whites and blacks)? Average income for whites and blacks? Living conditions for whites and blacks? Petrol, food, rental and real estate price rises? Is the GDP sill growing? The current unemployment and interest rates?

    8) Do you consider the Boers indigenous to Africa in the same way Anglo-Saxons are indigenous to America? Is it true that when the Dutch landed in the Cape and began to expand their settlements in the 17th century, there were no blacks to be seen anywhere but only nomadic bushmen? If that's true, when did the first white/black encounter occur?

    9) Do Boers actually prefer to be called Boers or Afrikaners? For what reason? Or are they indifferent?

    10) I heard the coloreds are for the most part descendants of the Dutch and Boer settlers and the bushmen. How could it have come to such a significant amount of miscegenation, given that the settlers subscribed to very traditional and conservative morals and ethics and were for the most part very religious?

    Enough questions for now, I think. Thank you for your effort to inform us. Take them one at a time, but I would love to learn more about this unique Germanic people (the Boers/Afrikaners) which converted the Southern part of Africa into a paradise which was from the 1950's to the early 1970's considered a paradise and an object of envy to the rest of the Western civilization.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776.

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    I don't know all the answers but can give it a crack:

    1) Was there ever a white/European majority in South Africa or in some of its administrative units, provinces or states (Transvaal, Freestate, Cape, etc.), taking the whole history into account: from 1652 to the 20th century?
    During the initial European settlement of the Cape area the majority would have been local Hottentots and Bushmen (brown skilled local tribes who aren't regarded as bantu's or negros) and of course the European settlers who were mostly from the Netherlands and France. (French Huguenots). The whites and "coloureds" formed the majority in this region. The blacks aka bantus are the more recent arrivals, having migrated in huge numbers from their homelands in the Eastern Cape especially the Transkei region. (Mostly Xhosas).

    My understanding is that the blacks / bantus have always been a majority in Eastern Cape and Natal. A number of different black tribes would also have been present in parts of the OFS and Transvaal by the time the Afrikaners migrated there during the Great Trek but am not intimate with the specific details.

    If not, during which period were whites most numerous (as a percentage of the total population), and how many percent of the South African population were white at this time?
    My understanding (I haven't been able to find census figures as yet) was that in the 1800's the white vs native populations were a lot closer in numbers to what they are today.

    2) What was the white : Indian : coloreds : black ratio in 1910 (the formation of the Union of South Africa), in 1948 (when the NP came to power), from 1958 to 1966 (the reign of Dr. Verwoerd), and in 1994 (the takeover of the government by the ANC)? How is the sitution now, 15 years after black rule?
    Don't know the specifics but broadly speaking the number of Indians were never particularly high and they were localised to the Natal region. Whilst Indian, white and Cape Coloured numbers grew modestly, black numbers grew exponentially and that process is continuing. Their ranks are swelled by huge numbers of economic migrants from Zimbabwe and Central Africa. One thing to note is that the SA blacks hate the migrants and trouble often breaks out between these groups.

    After 15 years of black rule the situation isn't particularly good but it's also not as bad as it could have been. There is a lot of reverse-discrimination taking place, jobs are reserved for blacks while whites are being marginalised etc. My suspicion is that once the incumbent president (Zuma) gets into power conditions will deteriorate at a faster rate than they have been under the previous ANC Governments. This particular gentleman is more corrupt and more inept than his predecessors imo.

    How many whites have left since then and how many millions do still remain in S.A. in absolute numbers and relative to the whole population? How many of them are Boers or Afrikaners, how many are British, and what's the ratio of other European minorities (Germans, Portuguese, Greeks, etc.)?
    Over the years a couple of million, mostly for countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK, the US due to those being Englishspeaking countries and nearly all whites in SA knowing it.

    The English / Afrikaans ration is possibly around 45 / 55%. It could be slightly higher in favour of the Afrikaners. The German numbers can possibly be measured in the 10's of thousands. It won't be particularly high.

    Portuguese.... possibly up to 500 000. Many came from Angola and Mozambique and many are from the island of Madeira.

    Greeks... much smaller numbers. Ditto for ex-Yugoslavs, Russians, Italians, French, Swedes, Dutch and so forth.

    3) What was the historical ratio between the British and the Boers during the course of time, and what is now?
    That's a bit vague.... South Africa didn't exist as a country until the British formed the Union of South Africa after the Anglo-Boer war of 1899-1901.

    One could then define a period around WW1 of "British" vs "Boers". I don't know the figures but overall it would have been in favour of the Boers.

    Today there are white South Africans from UK descent who aren't British anymore, white SA's of UK descent or origin who still are British and Afrikaners of mostly Dutch, French and German descent who have almost no ancestral ties to Europe.

    My guess is roughly 55 / 45 percent in favour of the Afrikaners.

    4) Do you believe that that the South African whites or the Boers as an ethnic group alone do have a realistic chance to ever obtain self-determination in the form of an independent Volksstaat again?
    Good question. As things stand today it won't happen. We're disorganised and too many are disinterested in politics at the moment. Conditions will have to become considerably worse for people to seriously clamour for an independent homeland. Another problem is that our political structures are full of deadwood and rife with enemy operative infiltration. Consequently people are being led to nowhere, arguing and going in circles.

    There's always a chance of course. Once people become angry, motivated and organised anything is possible.

    How could this be achieved?
    Planning, preparation, funding etc. None of which are in place atm. One would also have to assume that the Western powers will be heavily opposed to any kind of independence movement as it would not suit their agendas for South Africa. They want a dumbed down Monkeystan with corrupt and easily bribeable chiefs in order to keep raking in mining profits.

    Are you aware of any historical examples where a five to ten percent minority could manage to secede voluntarily or by force from a state in which it is such a small minority and in which it does not even possess a closed settlement area but is scattered throughout the country?
    Can't think of any but then again, if we were to secede we'd have to choose a territory (small) and go with that. Taking the whole country is out of the question and not in our interests anyway. The last thing we need is to get saddled with billions of Bantus again.

    As for being scattered.... people would either need to pack up and move to the homeland or continue staying put where they are, for better or worse.

    It might be much easier if most Afrikaners or whites would live in a territory where they enjoy a clear absolute majority. This doesn't appear to be the case anywhere, though; they seem to be rather scattered throughout the whole Republic with some strongholds (Gauteng, Southern Cape?), but in these regions they are a clear minority, too?
    Obviously, the aim would have to be to get away from the masses, not to set up camp in the middle of them. The Western / North Western Cape is about the only region I can think of where it's worth pursuing. It's sparsely populated further North, there aren't that many blacks, there is sea access. The problem is that much of the Boer Heartland tends to be in the OFS and Transvaal. It'll be difficult to convince or pursuade these people to move. However, those regions are both cut off from the coast and full of Bantus which means that they're unworkable as a homeland.

    5) Do you think projects like Orania have a realistic chance to succeed in resettling millions of Boers or whites to the Northern Cape in order that they would enjoy a clear majority in this province or at least in a part of it? The Northern Cape is scarcely populated, ain't it?
    Orania itself? No way. There are some good ideas and they do some good work but I don't trust the people involved in running it, their philosophy or their intentions. They're closely associated to the "Afrikanerbond" which is the modern incarnation of the "Broederbond" which was a secretive Afrikaner society not dissimilar to the Freemasons. My personal opinion is that the Afrikanerbond are a bit too cozy with the ruling ANC Government and that I don't know whose side they're really on. Furthermore I don't subscribe to the "rules" imposed on their society. Too restrictive, too Biblical. They'd do OK as a domestic equivalent of a typical Texas Bible cult but they're not fit for accommodating the mainstream.

    Yes, the Northern and Northwestern Cape is not as densely populated. Unfortunately it is quite arid and not particularly developed. The logistics of moving many people there to make a living there won't be easy.

    That the Boer or European minority could regain its power in the whole South African Republic appears to be even more unrealistic, doesn't it?
    Actually it wouldn't be that difficult to do (technically) with financial and logistical support (read money & guns) but those obviously won't be forthcoming. It doesn't suit the USA or EU's agenda in the way that breaking up Yugoslavia and arming countries like Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia (Muslims and Catholics) against Serbia did.

    Democratically it's an impossibility of course. The numbers at the ballot box are impossible to overcome so yes.... it is unrealistic.


    Sorry for the many questions but all we were taught in college was that apartheid and separation are Satan's work, a hundred times more evil than our segregation, and that we have to boycott all South African products. That's why I bought them whenever I spotted some (mostly fruit), while I boycotted all products "Made in Israel" (equally mostly fruit). Seems it didn't help, but it's the thought that counts.
    The same people who taught about the evils of apartheid are the ones defending Israel's right to bomb Lebanon and Gaza to smithereens, support Chechen terrorism in Russia, argue and legislate in favour of diversity and multiculturalism, control the banks, control the media, support the Albanian narcostate they call "Kosova", arrange "color revolutions" across Eastern Europe, started the Iraq and Afghan wars for oil and so forth and so forth.

    You know who I am talking about.


    6) Last but not least, can you tell us what happened in the years before 1994? I have heard many theories about traitors and NWO lackeys who sold out the power to the ANC which was only years ago still considered internationally a terrorist organization by Britain, the U.S. and many other countries. Why didn't the NP declare a small part of S.A. to a Boer or European state, while it was still in power?
    Here's where it gets interesting. I was at school with some of the kids of the ex National Party bigwigs. This was in the early 1990's. I asked them what they were planning to do during the "negotiations" with Joe Slovo and the ANC. They told me all about all their great plans to work out a fantastic deal for us (meaning the whites). Well..... we all saw what the end result was. TOTAL CAPITULATION AND HANDOVER.

    The US, UK and EU didn't really treat the ANC as if they were terrorists. Occasionally they'd pretend to but in practice they didn't. After all, these were the countries who'd been pressuring SA for years to end Apartheid.

    Now for the question about the NP and why. Why they didn't organise an independent territory or at least retain some form of power (ex over finance, police, military) is a mystery to most of us. De Klerk was awarded a Nobel peace prize. That set my mind thinking..... Nobel peace prizes are usually rewards handed out to the NWO's favourite scoundrels so obviously de Klerk and his Cabinet got paid off. I can't prove it but I'm certain that's what happened. Soros or somebody / organisation similar to him got to them and made them an offer they couldn't refuse.

    I've seen this happen so many times in the last couple of years in Eastern Europe (where the NWO / West pays off politicians to do their bidding) that I'm convinced the same thing happened in SA.

    And ... what will the future bring in your opinion? Zimbabwean conditions? Or national liberation? What are the odds?
    It won't be Zimbabwe just yet but it will probably get worse under Zuma. As for liberation.....errrrr..... at the moment there's little chance imo.


    7) Are the farm murders still continuing? The media don't report anything about them anymore. Apart from breaking ever new crime records, how has the life changed since 1994 (both for whites and blacks)? Average income for whites and blacks? Living conditions for whites and blacks? Petrol, food, rental and real estate price rises? Is the GDP sill growing? The current unemployment and interest rates?
    Farm murders still happening, crime in general is still rampant. It affects everybody. The perpetrators of violent crime are overwhelmingly blacks who attack anybody and everything including their own.

    Life in SA is becoming more expensive on average for most people so in real terms the general population are probably getting poorer. Property prices in parts of the country are incredibly expensive. Think the GDP isn't too bad but the country has a massive amount of debt. Probably due to ANC corruption and IMF / World Bank conniving who encouraged them to take out cheap loans in return for "economic reforms", meaning that the country's assets got pawned off to Western Corporations.

    8) Do you consider the Boers indigenous to Africa in the same way Anglo-Saxons are indigenous to America? Is it true that when the Dutch landed in the Cape and began to expand their settlements in the 17th century, there were no blacks to be seen anywhere but only nomadic bushmen? If that's true, when did the first white/black encounter occur?
    Sure we're indigenous. It's not like we're "European" anymore. Too much time has passed. Our culture / traditions / language is very closely related to Europe but we don't consider Europe to be our homeland.

    There were no blacks in the Cape at the time the Dutch arrived there. There were Hottentots and Bushmen. (Indigenous brownskinned peoples). The first black / white encounters probably took place once the whites started moving East. It may have been in the Eastern Cape but I can't remember for certain.

    9) Do Boers actually prefer to be called Boers or Afrikaners? For what reason? Or are they indifferent?
    There is a thread dedicated to this topic in the SA section.

    10) I heard the coloreds are for the most part descendants of the Dutch and Boer settlers and the bushmen. How could it have come to such a significant amount of miscegenation, given that the settlers subscribed to very traditional and conservative morals and ethics and were for the most part very religious?
    They're a rough mix of (in wildly varying proportions) Hottentots (who are for all intents and purposes now an extinct race), whites, Bushmen, whites and Malays. In some cases there'd be some Bantu blood as well.

    The original Dutch settlers came to set up a replenishment post for trading ships going to the Far East. They didn't bring women with them. Many must have gotten lonely and set up shack with what was available at the time.

    Enough questions for now, I think. Thank you for your effort to inform us. Take them one at a time, but I would love to learn more about this unique Germanic people (the Boers/Afrikaners) which converted the Southern part of Africa into a paradise which was from the 1950's to the early 1970's considered a paradise and an object of envy to the rest of the Western civilization.
    That's right... in the period after WW2 until the mid 1980's SA was probably one of the best places in the world to live (if you were white of course) with a high standard of living, good infrastructure, good economy etc. Even now it's not terminally bad but times have changed and not for the better.

    Incidentally, the same changes that SA underwent are sweeping across Europe now as certain cities and regions are being multi-kultied. It's only a question of time before they share SA's fate. The Europeans only have themselves to blame for being suckered by the Liberal 5th columnists in their midsts into throwing open their borders and welfare systems to the swarming masses.

    Imo it's also a serious mistake to blame the (African and Muslim) immigrants for this state of affairs. These people are of course opportunists who took advantage of the situation but they didn't create it nor do they control it. The puppetmasters are from elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forseti View Post
    Do you believe that that the South African whites or the Boers as an ethnic group alone do have a realistic chance to ever obtain self-determination in the form of an independent Volksstaat again? How could this be achieved?
    The Volkstaat question encompasses a potentially enormous amount of topics for discussion, and because of issues like population dispersion, a political climate hostile to the notion, and disunity, the answers to most of these questions aren't simple either. Interest in Afrikaner independence is still strong and growing, though, which is why the (mostly Afrikaans) Volkstaat sub-forum came into being.

    I believe there is a realistic chance of obtaining an independent Afrikaner state, and that people too often dismiss the notion as unachievable after finding that no other secessionist movement elsewhere in the world has faced our particular problems and overcome it. An example needs a first implementation somewhere, and the Afrikaner people are desperately in need of a change in the status quo to survive as a nation. It might take another major change in the current political climate to get the ball rowling, but we have enough will and ideas now to start putting thoughts into action, instead of waiting idly for such a catalyst to come our way.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoyBatty View Post
    As for being scattered.... people would either need to pack up and move to the homeland or continue staying put where they are, for better or worse.
    Indeed, we've mentioned in the Volkstaat sub-forum something like a second Great Trek would be required.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoyBatty View Post
    Obviously, the aim would have to be to get away from the masses, not to set up camp in the middle of them. The Western / North Western Cape is about the only region I can think of where it's worth pursuing.
    The proposed area, seen as the most viable option chiefly for the reasons RoyBatty supplied:



    Quote Originally Posted by Forseti View Post
    Do you think projects like Orania have a realistic chance to succeed in resettling millions of Boers or whites to the Northern Cape in order that they would enjoy a clear majority in this province or at least in a part of it?
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyBatty View Post
    Orania itself? No way. There are some good ideas and they do some good work but I don't trust the people involved in running it, their philosophy or their intentions.
    You can call Orania a laboratory-sized experiment to show how the Volkstaat concept might work. The town/area itself was never meant to be the Afrikaner state. As for projects like Orania... a volkstaat of scattered cantons? Highly unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forseti View Post
    Do Boers actually prefer to be called Boers or Afrikaners? For what reason? Or are they indifferent?
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyBatty View Post
    Some of the posts in that thread are in Afrikaans, but (luckily for interested outsiders) those are mostly mutual encouragement not to allow the supposed difference between Boer and Afrikaner be a divisive issue between us. To answer, Boers prefer to be called Boers, and very much so. In summary, Boer has an added association with right-wing sentiments and/or Christian prophecies, while Afrikaner is a more general ethno-cultural term. That might be oversimplifying things, so I'd still recommend going through the sticky thread RoyBatty indicated.

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