View Poll Results: Are you jealous in your relationships?

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    6 35.29%
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Thread: Jealousy in Relationships: Productive or Destructive?

  1. #31
    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
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    Life is a struggle, getting to a "happy place" can sometimes be a struggle, depending on one's own personality, habits, choices and personal circumstances.

    In my view one way to slowly break out of a negative cycle (and realistically, it takes a long time, there is no instant cure) is to stay busy and to assume a workload which both distracts one's self from over-thinking and over-analysing one's personal situation.

    Completing tasks in a reasonably competent manner (it takes some time and practice to become skilled at any job) provides a degree of satisfaction. It builds up a little bit of self-confidence in that we feel we can contribute something useful and perform useful functions.

    The key thing here is that for any of this to work, one has to make a decision and take that step toward wanting to make a change for the better as opposed to stay clinging to the "security of the inevitability that things cannot change or become better."

    Once caught in a spiral of negativity it starts becoming a known and accepted constant, a new "reality" (in our own mind) of "how things really are" and a habit. Old bad habits are hard to break out of, and the only way to do it is to apply one's self and to make an effort. It requires a lot of will power, determination and motivation. Basically, one has to fight for it.

    Doing this all alone is also not so easy, it helps when there are people around us who still care a little bit and who would be willing to provide at least some friendship, emotional support and understanding. Such people will become more motivated to be supportive once they perceive that the person is making a genuine effort to improve their circumstances.

    This will sound harsh, but for many folks there isn't much point in sacrificing their time and energy for people who don't want to get better or improve their circumstances. Therefore, by making the effort and illustrating (without trying to force the pace, putting on an act or being fake) it will motivate people around us to take us more seriously and to be more supportive.

    It's as Aeternitas said, the self-esteem and self-worth issues really are the key and need to be addressed long before considering a relationship. Learn to walk before running, maintain realistic expectations. Progress takes time but by taking things one step at a time at least one gives one's self a chance, as opposed to becoming despondent and falling back into the belief that "things are hopeless" whenever there is a setback. The aim should be to make the gains outweigh the setbacks, and the best way to achieve this would be through small, incremental steps.

    By themselves many of these gains will seem insignificant, but once taken together they represent massive progress. Whenever there is a set back, look at the problem from a "glass half full" kind of perspective. For example, "yes it was unfortunate that xyz happened but it could have been worse, I can find a solution to the problem and work around it and move forward." In other words, don't give up.

    It takes an effort to break out of mental prison, and the further a person has sunk the greater the effort to get out but what point is there in putting it off and hiding behind the "security" of a "friend" called negativity? We'd just be wasting time, time we don't have that much of in this life.

    ~ **** Democracy! It's 2 wolves and 1 sheep deciding what's for dinner.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thusnelda View Post
    I confess: I´m that way. I can´t do anything about it, I don´t have a high belief of me so I feel inferior to most other women. In a relationship, I´m always afraid that I will be cheated or dismissed for another woman. And life experience agrees with me!
    I'm that way too, when you have life experience to prove it, then the burden of proof lays on the other.

    In fairy tales there's always the man who proves that not all are the same. Well where is he? I haven't met him yet?

    Too few people share any world views and when we find any who fit near the description, like here, on a forum like Skadi, they're too far away to consider everything..

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    the more women I added to my tally, the less likely it'd be to find a nice girl, because I might be considered 'damaged goods'.
    This is true, but it's not just the nice girls. Women judge, and many of us, are wary of men who have a long history of relationships. But men shouldn't complain, at least you're not considered whores. There are exceptions of course but to me a man who has had many relationships, especially marriages, that's a complete red flag, is just another recipe for disaster. I'm not going to interrogate a guy how many women he's been with, however if it's out there, I'll probably just refuse him and stay away. I rather not be just another crossed name on a list. Maybe the guy is really nice and he just had bad luck, but my experience dictates my choices.

    In hindsight, it should have been dead obvious he was an idiot from the moment he took seven months to give you an answer on that super-cute thing you did to woo him. He should have been smitten immediately, and should have walked over and kissed you right away. Not some lame response like the one he offered when you finally got together.

    He wasn't in love with you, he was in love with the idea of settling down and it was sweet while it lasted. It's tough to know that - but it helps to mend. This wasn't meant to last, and sometimes we have to make huge person-mistakes before we get everything right.
    Sorry, this was the guy over who there were debates to send a love letter and he reacted by doing nothing? Sorry but it seems to me nowadays men approach women less and less and the burden is placed on us. I'm not an old-fashioned person but I still think it should be a man's duty to put the ball in the woman's court and let her know he is interested. What's happening to the strong German men who fear nothing but death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    I've been in such an arrangement, or something akin thereto, before - where both parties basically used the other to 'cheer oneself up' about things. It ended in what is colloquially known as 'C***gate' amongst the older Skadites.
    I'm sure it must have real to you but we are talking about real, physical relationships. Internet relationships lack 98% of human communication which is non-verbal so they are bound not to work from the beginning. With internet relationships when you see one that works out that's the exception to the rule. Internet relationships fail first and foremost because they are fantasy relationships and real-world needs can't be fulfilled. A guy can't be much of a masochist over the internet. Women who are sensitive and want to let out their anger to a masochist man need him physically, you can't exchange embraces and other physical stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    It is so odd how people see themselves sometimes. Of all the people on Skadi my impression is that you would magnetically attract a following of all people, both genders, based on what I, we, feel is innate leadership and judgment ability. In the past when you have made a decision and then explained it, everyone just says "yeah, that is the way it is" and move on. Is this assessment wrong? No. This does not sound like insecurity to me.
    I always found it weird how some people thought of themselves but I think it's linked with this: Dunning–Kruger effect >> The unintelligent overestimate their ability, the intelligent overestimate the ability of others (thus underestimating their own). This is why we find so much low self-esteem on Skadi. Just because people here can write without spelling mistakes in every other word or speak a foreign language doesn't mean everyone else does it.

    The polls on Skadi so far lead to the same conclusion, for example, most Skadi members are intelligent >> most Skadi people are single. Online it's no big issue, offline it results in most intelligent people being childless, and it has a negative effect on evolution. The solution isn't to dumb down our people but to 1. raise our self-esteem and 2. find ways to get together with other Germanics like us. There is black and Asian dating, Jewish dating, interracial dating, but no Germanic dating.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Out of Germania View Post
    I'm that way too, when you have life experience to prove it, then the burden of proof lays on the other.
    Would you want to be held accountable for the errors, faults, mistakes and shortcoming of your precedessor? Probably not. Then don't do it to someone else. No one has a burden of proof that he/she is faithful, how would one prove that anyhow?

    I tend to make it clear to every woman I'm with that they begin with a clean slate and a fresh heap of trust, and tend to expect the same in return. Then again, at this age, I don't give people a reason to be jealous, I'm too old for mind games.

    This is true, but it's not just the nice girls. Women judge, and many of us, are wary of men who have a long history of relationships. [...] I rather not be just another crossed name on a list.
    You should always judge by someone's recent history of relationships, the way they were conducted, and the reason and way it drifted apart - not the way that's in ancient history. Again, a clean slate, and a character thing.

    Of course there is always something wrong with someone if they're promiscuous. But when the promiscuity and/or the bragging about past 'conquests' ceases to persist at some point, then they may well be healed from their own shadows. People who jump from relationship to relationship are unhappy with themselves and running from something. But, someone who stops running and mans up shouldn't be called a runner, but a man.

    I know one girl who shared the blankets with most anyone in town around the time she was 17 or 18. Her father had died that year, and she had constant fights with her mother in the aftermath. All her adult life she's had a total of two committed, long relationships. If she were on the market and I were interested - why should I hold it against her that she used to be considered as the 'village slut' in times of deep personal turmoil?

    I'm not an old-fashioned person but I still think it should be a man's duty to put the ball in the woman's court and let her know he is interested.
    Correct. Being shy or reserved is a quality of its own, but by and at large: If a man can't even muster the guts to make the first move, he's bound to be hesitant in other situations, too.

    Most people would never guess I'm uncomfortable in unfamiliar situations - because I've long learnt to make sure they're not unfamiliar situations, and to know you can muster social situations that otherwise scare you builds your confidence. It's quite curious - because now that I've learnt it, I also have less problems speaking about my own weakness when once I used to claim I didn't have any, but was, secretly, a lot weaker, with a lot of spectres on my shoulder.

    What's happening to the strong German men who fear nothing but death?
    With 99%, it's mostly just talk. It's the bad weather when people prove their worth, not when everything's a reenactment of 'My Little Farm'.

    I'm sure it must have real to you but we are talking about real, physical relationships.
    That's why I called it an 'arrangement' and 'something akin thereto' and not a relationship, because it only existed over telephone and in our heads. A relationship without a kiss is never consummated, and it can only ever be a 'romantic episode' but no relationship. But, the feelings at the time were real.

    But the fact, it wasn't a physical "next door" relationship probably contributed towards the fact the entire venture was a matter of "running away from life's tribulations": The internet being the place where two people who're at a given point most incomplete and imperfect bumping into each other and showing off their 'depressive good side'.

    On the other hand, the consequences can be bad in real life, too. Running from one's spectre is essentially how my mother's third marriage happened, and that guy turned out to be a real psycho. He tried to sue half our family and eventually almost strangled her to death.

    Internet relationships lack 98% of human communication which is non-verbal so they are bound not to work from the beginning. With internet relationships when you see one that works out that's the exception to the rule.
    That's very true. They can work, but they make things a lot more difficult. When the person's always just a room away, an argument can oft be dissolved by going into that next room and hugging that special someone.

    In an internet, or even otherwise long-distance arrangement, there's always a chance the other person might simply hang up, or go offline, and that's typically inconducive to making up.

    So, for it to work, it has to be very true. And not everyone's made for it.

    The unintelligent overestimate their ability, the intelligent overestimate the ability of others (thus underestimating their own). This is why we find so much low self-esteem on Skadi.
    I actually tend to say that so-called 'personality disorders' such as depression, Borderline et. al. aren't so much an actual "mental illness". To me, they're simply an reaction to a rotten world filled with all forms of negative impulses and situations --- and there's people who react more sensitive to it than others.

    That's why I've yet to find someone afflicted with depression, self-esteem issues, or other such ailments that isn't of above average intelligence and/or politically awoken. That's actually why I dislike the word 'depression' and prefer the word Weltschmerz, which is something which fits the description much better.

    The problem's not that there's something wrong with people who have these issues. The problem's that they haven't found a way to cope with an unforgiving world living in unnatural arrangement. I know it gives a lot of people consolation to believe they're ill" because they see they're not to fault - but it also holds them back, because they may lose the confidence that they're able to pull themselves out of that sorry situation.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thusnelda View Post
    No Sigurd, times are different and past is past.
    You just provided yourself with the anwer to your own fears: Past is indeed past. Your last two relationships ended badly, but it's not your fault. Actually, let's be super-pragmatic about this:

    If it's over for good, it's never one person's fault alone. It's often 50-50, sometimes 70-30 and in cases where it broke apart because one party cheated it's 90-10. But it's never 100-0.

    In both your cases, the major share of blame goes to the guy. Neither quite understood you.

    Maybe I was a confident person 10 years ago but now I´m a wreck when it comes to relationships. I´m not ready and I feel too vulnerable. Jealousy would get the best of me on the first date evening.
    In this situation, the jealousy situation would probably sort out who's really interested in you, and who was just looking for yet another date. Because such a guy would want to be spared the drama, and would probably run like hell.

    If some girl I really liked gave me a scene on first date, and asked me how many other girls I did this with, I'd kill the awkward situation with a bit of humour. She feels uneasy about the situation - and no re-assuring her with the words she's heard from dozens of other guys is going to make it good.

    I'd probaby name an astronomically high (and impossible number) and pack a compliment into the same sentence about how she must be special because she's the only out of the bunch that made it to an upmarket restaurant.

    Hey, if it's going to ruin the date, it's going to be ruined anyway. But perhaps it's one of those magical moments where you say the most outrageous thing possible, and it happens to be novelty enough that she's reassured about the fact you're able to deal with her jealousy, made it clear to her that you're interested in her, and made her laugh in the process.

    For those familiar with sitcoms, think 'smurf penis'.

    But in some way I can understand him. The time I lost my...you know what...I was depressive as hell. I was no good partner then and we had many arguments.
    It was bad timing, because the two of you had no time to build a base to the relationship. Not your fault though, blame the Norns - but not yourself.

    I need to say that I can see a point that an succesfull man doesn´t want to marry a woman who is in deep emotional trouble.If he ad married me, would we have a lucky marriage? I doubt it.
    If it's right, then his success isn't measured by his position at work, but by the ability to make his woman happy. And if shes in deep emotional trouble, then he simply isn't the right person to help her out of that emotional trouble.

    You mean the shy love letter? You have a good memory. It was a classical approach of me but the only one I could bring across.
    And the guy took seven months to answer it. Sure, whilst Skadi was off-line I spent over two years chasing after a girl who was madly in love with me --- and whilst it was an awesome time, we eventually broke up over the reason why we put off starting a relationship for so long to begin with (difference in world-view too big).

    Like I said, I still believe the guy wasn't really in love with you, but in love with the idea of settling down. As such, when he arrived after seven months, you should have probably said something like: "Sorry, you waited for too long. I'm interested in a different guy now." (it mightn't have been an outright lie, actually).

    If he were Mr. Right he would not have taken that as an answer, but he would have at least tried to fight for it whilst he didn't see there actually was a different guy. It would have been romantic to watch the guy make a fool of himself to 'win you with a plan' whilst he already had you 'pocketed' anyway. :

    I won´t forget that honeymoon and that tropical sunburn on my skin. it wasn´t that bad, I can´t say that I didn´t enjoy it, but it´s not my kind of climate. But he wanted it so strongly so I agreed.
    I repeat: It's the guy who decides where to go, but the girl who decides where to go.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  5. #35
    Omnia in bonum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtengel View Post
    Do you think jealousy belongs in relationships? Can it be motivating or does it betray distrust? Just fyi, it's about a normal dose of jealousy, not about extreme, pathological cases. Everything in moderation.
    Good topic!

    If by jealousy one means that the beloved is a piece of property that cannot be shared with anyone, even friends or relatives, then no. In those cases, jealousy causes no end of unhappiness and misery. It's simply impossible that one person can be completely appropriated by another.

    But there is something very unique about the relationship between a man and a woman, especially in marriage, because it is so deep, exclusive and intimate. The exclusivity of this type of love doesn't exclude affection for others, but it is a very distinct type of relationship because of the sexual component, which intensely connects two people. So if jealousy means to safeguard the primacy of the spousal relationship, then yes, I agree some jealousy is necessary.
    Let us not desire delights, daughters; we are well-off here; the bad inn lasts for only a night.
    -St. Teresa of Avila

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  7. #36
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    Couples don't own each other. A loving relationship is based on mutual trust. If jealousy is a persistent feeling expressed by one or both partners, something amiss is going on that needs to be properly vented.

    Intuitively suspecting a partner is cheating arouses a feeling of alarming jealousy in some cases, and can't be discounted for accuracy either.

    Communication is also a vital link that must be maintained, or couples will drift apart.
    Not all in life is at it appears to be.

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