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Thread: Scandinavians and the "Germanic" Nomenclature

  1. #81
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    The term "skandinavian" should not be used anymore. The folks should be called North Germanics, because this is what they are.
    It's a genuine native North Germanic term that's almost two thousand years old. Where's the problem with it?
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Sybren View Post
    It's the same around here.

    Dutch 'Germaans' and Frisian 'Germaansk' are definitely "filthy" words here. When you say them, shame on you for bringing up the issue of superiority of certain races (:S).

    Indeed in certain linguistical context, you can get away with using this awful evil word.
    How is Germaans an "evil word"? No idea how someone could concoct something like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sybren View Post
    Also, the understanding is that Germanic tribes used to live here. All of a sudden they just vanished Never mind that there is practically no ancestry of non-Germanics around here, the Germanics are still mystical tribes of the past and we somehow appeared from thin air
    .... And then even speaking a Germanic language, for example.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    It's a genuine native North Germanic term that's almost two thousand years old. Where's the problem with it?
    First, I just vented my personal opinion, in a forum.

    Second, the term itself refers to a geographical location. That is awkward, because all other names for Germanic folks refer either to the folk itself, or to a thing (often a weapon) which the folk did use.

    Third, the term has been used, and abused as token for, and has become laden with anti-Germanic, specifically anti-German sentiments. It has thus become a serious obstacle for all movements and endeavors toward Germanic unity and unification.

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    Senior Member Wyrd's Avatar
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    Scandinavia is the birth place and cradle of Germanics, therefore it's an important term, especially for Northern Germanics. Another reason many Scandinavian Germanics don't use Germanic in everyday life is because of the negative association with Hitler's Germanic Reich. Scandinavians are proud and while they don't dislike Germans, they oppose the idea of being dominated by Germany. Scandinavism exists as an ideology to unite Swedes, Danes, and Norwegians.


    Staff note: Discussion about Scandinavian vs. Nordic has been split here. Discussion about Norway in WWII is continued here. Please continue to use this thread exclusively for the discussion about the use of the "Germanic" nomenclature in Scandinavia.

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    Not anti-Germanic but as Wyrd explained, Scandinavians don't want to be dominated by Germans. There was an anti-nazi sentiment because of WWII. Another type of rivalry is because of Schleswig-Holstein.

    There are very few Scadinavians who are truly anti-Germanic and hate Germans themselves or find them inferior to us, because they believe we were the first and true Germanics, while Germans only inherited some parts of our culture, so they shouldn't try bossing us around. But there are also anti-Scandinavian Germans who think the other way around, that Scandinavians are weak and the only good thing about us is that we have many Nordic looking people.

    But today most of us don't share any ill sentiment and we welcome German people in our countries, don't count them as really foreign, etc.
    Scandinavism as an ideology exists because we naturally feel closer to each other than to other Germanics, we understand our languages, etc. but that's also true for other Germanics, Germans with Austrians and Swiss or Liechtensteiners, Flanders with the Netherlands or Luxembourg, Anglosphere countries and so on. It doesn't mean we deny the Germanic heritage. We are Danes/Nowergian/Swedes, then Scandinavians, then Germanics, then Europeans.

    We just want out our independence, to preserve our languages, culture and national characters and not to be part of a German empire. Which is normal, because Germans also wouldn't want to be part of a Scandinavian or Anglo empire. If there was a pan-Germanic federation instead of the EU, where Germanic nations defended each other and cooperated externally, but their internal characteristic and national peculiarities were respected, probably Scandinavians wouldn't mind joining.

  6. #86
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    First, I just vented my personal opinion, in a forum.
    Don't beat around the bush now. We're obviously all venting our personal opinion on a forum. That very fact makes everything you say open to critique.

    Second, the term itself refers to a geographical location. That is awkward, because all other names for Germanic folks refer either to the folk itself, or to a thing (often a weapon) which the folk did use.
    You're hopefully joking.
    So the Angles("those living at the narrow (water)/bend"), the Bajuwarii("those living in the former lands of the Boii"), the Ampsivarii("those living at the river Ems"), the Angrivarii("those living at the (river) bend") and the Harudes ("the forest dwellers"), to name just a few, weren't Germanic?

    Besides, that Scandinavia might actually be connected to the godess Skadi, the "island" part being secondary.

    Third, the term has been used, and abused as token for, and has become laden with anti-Germanic, specifically anti-German sentiments. It has thus become a serious obstacle for all movements and endeavors toward Germanic unity and unification.
    I don't see how so feel free to enlighten me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrd View Post
    Scandinavia is the birth place and cradle of Germanics,
    This is debatable, to be honest. It's likely Germanic speech arose first in northern Germany(but not even that far north) and only secondarily spread to Scandinavia.

    Genetically, these peoples were probably closely related from the beginning but even then, they originally spread from Germany to Scandinavia and not the other way round, as IE came from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe. Scandinavia instead was, rather thinly, settled by non-IE Hunter Gatherers(by then probably largely in the genetical, not the subsistence sense).
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blod og Jord View Post
    There was an anti-nazi sentiment because of WWII.
    The British destroyed the Danish navy two times, in 1801, and in 1807. These two battles effectively, and irretrievably, irrevocably, took Denmark, that means the Danish folk, out of history. Whereas the Germans did never destroy the Danish navy, although they at least three times had the chance to do it.

    Why do the Danes not hate the British? Let me guess. Maybe, it has something to do with the jews?? I'm just guessing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blod og Jord View Post
    Another type of rivalry is because of Schleswig-Holstein.
    So, the "Sydslesvig" is more important to the "Skandinavians" (I think Swedes and Norwegians give a damn for Slesvig) than 5 million negroes which are flooding and maybe irreparably destroy "Skandinavia"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    So the Angles("those living at the narrow (water)/bend"), the Bajuwarii("those living in the former lands of the Boii"), the Ampsivarii("those living at the river Ems"), the Angrivarii("those living at the (river) bend") and the Harudes ("the forest dwellers"), to name just a few, weren't Germanic?
    There was a reason why all these names disappeared.

    The "Haruder" are so obscure, and so irrelevant that one might even doubt they existed. About the real original meaning of the name Bai-waren, not "Baju-waren" there is no common agreement. The mere genesis of the folk is utterly obscure. The Amsiwarer now are part and parcel of the Sachsen, and the 'Sachs' was the battle sword of the whole folk, which made them great.

    But the point is: all these names, even if taken seriosuly, are subnames, whereas "Skandinavian" is, quite deliberately, meant & understood as a supername, whose sole purpose is to cast disagreement and disunity among Germanics. I think you do know that clearly. You argue with me here just for vanity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Besides, that Scandinavia might actually be connected to the godess Skadi, the "island" part being secondary.
    Yeah, it might actually be, or it might not.

    I do judge, and value, and estimate each and every thing according to the real hard use of which it is, or might become, in real hard political struggle.
    Last edited by Spjabork; Tuesday, September 5th, 2017 at 02:19 AM. Reason: Edit: rules #03, #04, #08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    The term "skandinavian" should not be used anymore. The folks should be called North Germanics, because this is what they are.

    I think that the epithet "North" is already distinction and honorification enough. They can be proud to be the northernmost of all Germanics.
    Since when should you, a non-Nordic and non-Scandinavian outsider decide what nomenclature we should use? Accuse us of being anti-Germanic because of using that term? The nerve. Please stick to your own matters and don't poke your nose where it doesn't concern you.

    I'm getting tired of this German supremacy from some people on Skadi, you are not the only Germanics. Get a grip and deal with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guđrún View Post
    Since when should you, a non-Nordic and non-Scandinavian outsider decide what nomenclature we should use? Accuse us of being anti-Germanic because of using that term? The nerve. Please stick to your own matters and don't poke your nose where it doesn't concern you.
    As far as I know, Iceland is not located in Skandinavia. It is much farer away form there than Germany.

    So if I am an "outsider", so are you. If the question does "not concern me", it would concern you even less.

    Though I think more Skandinavians do understand German, than Icelandic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guđrún View Post
    I'm getting tired of this German supremacy from some people on Skadi, you are not the only Germanics. Get a grip and deal with it.
    There is a reason why we all are called by the others, scientifically and colloquially, Germanics, and not Skandinavianics.

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    Two terms don't have to exclude each other. All Scandinavians are Germanics but not all Germanics are Scandinavians, much like all Bavarians are by design Germans but not all Germans are Bavarians, contrary to the belief of some romantic German-Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    As far as I know, Iceland is not located in Skandinavia. It is much farer away form there than Germany.
    This is essentially nitpicking. Proximity or distance prove nothing, no one would dispute that Dutch and Afrikaners are very closely related, ethnically as much as linguistically and that's several thousand kilometres more than between Norway and Iceland. Heck, geographically - or at least tectonically - Iceland isn't even 100% in Europe, but it's always counted as such due to cultural ties. And as a result, the cultural ties to Norway and Denmark make it a Scandinavian country by association and heritage alone.

    Icelandic was settled by Norwegian settlers and for centuries - at any time up until approx. the middle of the 14 century - the two idioms remained mutually intelligible. Then a whole variety of things happened on the linguistic end:

    The plague reduced literacy in Norway whilst Iceland was basically spared therefrom. Iceland already had vibrant literature, and the first bible translation of 1564 was received as a good one as well, whilst the Norwegian translation was rubbish. Norway was subsequently much more influenced by Danish (and Low German indeed) than Icelandic even though at times they were both under Danish rule and whilst Icelandic even employed a policy of linguistic purism, whose roots are attestable to at least 1609. That's the whole ancestor to the Bokmal/Nynorsk discussion: Everyone (except a few Oslo and Bergen folks) agreed to reduce Danish influence but people weren't willing to exchange it for a standard based on a dialect also not theirs.

    Mutual intelligibility is also not an immediate clue. Most Spaniards under the age of 40 might have a better command of English than of French, yet French is a closely related language.

    Though I think more Skandinavians do understand German, than Icelandic.
    Trade relations and/or royal intertwining, as well as geopolitical interests were of course happening much more with Germany as that bulwark in the European centre. Iceland was an agricultural society with under 100,000 people (the 1703 census lists some 50.366 people) that wasn't even home-ruled.

    By that argument the Welsh would be Germanic and closer to the English than the Irish, of course too nonsensical an argument to even consider.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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