Page 1 of 8 123456 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 78

Thread: Terminology: Afrikaner vs Boer

  1. #1
    Schimmelreiter
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Hauke Haien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    Monday, September 4th, 2017 @ 09:59 AM
    Ethnicity
    Deutsch
    Location
    Land der Deutschen
    Gender
    Posts
    1,841
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    22
    Thanked in
    19 Posts

    Lightbulb Terminology: Afrikaner vs Boer

    I was under the impression that Boers are a subset of Afrikaners, mostly in contrast to the Cape Dutch that did not participate in any treks. Could you tell us how these various terms - White South African, Afrikaner, Boer - relate to each other from your point of view?

  2. #2
    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Last Online
    Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017 @ 08:34 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Paleface
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Occupation
    Arbeit Macht Frei
    Politics
    Rightwing / Socialist
    Posts
    2,415
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    12 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    I was under the impression that Boers are a subset of Afrikaners, mostly in contrast to the Cape Dutch that did not participate in any treks. Could you tell us how these various terms - White South African, Afrikaner, Boer - relate to each other from your point of view?
    Oh goodness Hauke! Now you've opened up a can of worms because we can't even agree amongst ourselves about what exactly we are, LOL!!!!

    OK a brief history lesson as I understand it:

    - In the beginning..... the Portuguese came and saw and left.
    - They were later followed by the Dutch who needed a resupply station for their ships bound for the Far East.
    - In 1652 the Dutch founded a resupply post. Some Dutch settled. Some took wives from amongst the "locals" (meaning mostly Hottentot tribe). These people were brown skinned and not typical Africans / Blacks / Bantus.
    - More settlers arrived from NL, France (Huguenots mostly) and handfulls of others.
    - The British and Dutch had a few minor trade disputes, the end result of one of these was that the Cape became a British possession. British settlers start arriving here. (They also became active around Natal and the Eastern Cape).
    - A number of the (mostly) Dutch / French / German settlers decided that British Rule was not for them and decided to head off deeper inland. By this time there was already a loose "Afrikaner" culture amongst these people.
    - They founded two Boer Republics namely the Orange Free State and the Transvaal. All was OK'ish until the discovery of gold. There was a subsequent goldrush from mostly the UK as fortuneseekers made their way to the Transvaal. Soon they demanded "rights" and were agitating to make this territory a Crown possession.
    - The Boers naturally didn't take kindly to being robbed of their land by the British, war broke out and the Boers inevitably lost due to being outnumbered, outspent, outgunned and outstarved.

    Now for the terms:

    White South African - this could be any white person with South African citizenship. Typically this person is from Dutch, French, German, British, Portuguese and in some cases Italian and Swedish descent. More recent arrivals came from Eastern European countries such as Poland or the Former Yugoslavia. I'm also aware of a few Russians. A significant number of Eastern European Jews (Lithuanians mostly) also immigrated to South Africa.

    Afrikaner - Some confusion here about what an Afrikaner is. Originally the term meant white South Africans from generally German / Dutch / French descent who spoke Afrikaans as their primary language. Nowadays it could be interpreted to include the Cape Coloureds (Creole peoples of the Cape) as well since most of them speak a dialect of Afrikaans. It is a very general term.

    "English" South African - Typically a white South African with British ancestry.

    Boer - This could literally mean "farmer", it could mean Afrikaans Nationalists from primarily the Transvaal and Free State (old Boer Republics), it was used as a slang term for the Apartheid Era South African Military and Police and it could also mean a person who identifies him/herself with the cause of the Boers even though they aren't necessarily from a "Boer" background themselves.

    We'd generally consider those who identify with the original ethnic "Afrikaner" core of Dutch / French / German, the language of Afrikaans and our culture as Boers. In other words, there are UK descent "Boers" as well as "Boers" from other European countries.

    A number of the "Afrikaners" have embraced "diversity" and multiculturalism and the wonderful rainbownation democracy which comes with it. We don't consider these people to be Boers. They're grouped with whatever else is being thrown in the melting pot as taught to them by their TV sets.

    Apologies for the long post, hope it makes sense.

  3. #3
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Dagna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    Northern German, Scandinavian
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Norway Norway
    Location
    Norway
    Gender
    Age
    41
    Politics
    Classic Liberalism
    Religion
    Agnosticism
    Posts
    2,098
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    19
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    76
    Thanked in
    48 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyBatty View Post
    Oh goodness Hauke! Now you've opened up a can of worms because we can't even agree amongst ourselves about what exactly we are, LOL!!!!
    Indeed, it is even more difficult for us outsiders to differentiate. I believe there is also a dispute which flag represents South Africa better:
    2007 Afrikanervlag


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

  4. #4
    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Last Online
    Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017 @ 08:34 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Paleface
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Occupation
    Arbeit Macht Frei
    Politics
    Rightwing / Socialist
    Posts
    2,415
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    12 Posts
    Another thing to keep in mind is that many of the Cape Dutch did participate in the Trek. The Cape is where the Boers originally came from.

    Some of them stayed in the Cape of course and chose to become loyal to the British.

    Others stayed and remained loyal Boers. During WW2 some of these Cape Boers even supplied the Kriegsmarine with diesel / foodsupplies and so forth because there were still ill feelings about the Anglo-Boer War. The enemy of my enemy is my friend......

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    Indeed, it is even more difficult for us outsiders to differentiate. I believe there is also a dispute which flag represents South Africa better:
    2007 Afrikanervlag
    LOL indeed. I haven't even seen those flags before. Trying to keep up with everybody and his dog with an organisation and 5 members is a bit of a chore. That's our historic problem. Too much infighting and stupidity.

    There are efforts underway to "unifiy the tribe" (the different Boer groups) but you know how it is.... easier said than done.

  5. #5
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Stormraaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Afrikaner
    Country
    Netherlands Netherlands
    Gender
    Age
    34
    Posts
    961
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    52
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    12 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyBatty View Post
    Afrikaner - Some confusion here about what an Afrikaner is. Originally the term meant white South Africans from generally German / Dutch / French descent who spoke Afrikaans as their primary language. Nowadays it could be interpreted to include the Cape Coloureds (Creole peoples of the Cape) as well since most of them speak a dialect of Afrikaans. It is a very general term.
    I want to point out that there are those of us who vehemently reject the general application of the word Afrikaner to include Cape Coloureds who speak Afrikaans. This is comparable to calling a brown-skinned Swedish-speaking person in Sweden a Swede.

    My reasons for calling myself an Afrikaner and not a Boer:
    1. I can't trace back any of my ancestors to the Boer republics. My family hasn't kept good records, but I think it's safe to say the majority of my ancestors were Cape Colonials.
    2. The term Boer is heavily associated with Christian identitarians.
    3. Many who call themselves Boers opt to not include all Afrikaners in their ideology, unnecessarily creating an artificial divide between descendents of those who stayed in the first colonial lands, and those who trekked. I don't want to associate with this kind of thinking either.


    Quote Originally Posted by RoyBatty View Post
    I'm a Capetonian myself (in other words, not from the so-called "Boer" Republics) and not particularly religious either but it's getting to the point where I don't want to describe myself as an Afrikaner anymore, especially when it comes to the ones watching "7e Laan", getting all teary-eyed at the mention of Mandela's name or supporting the £%^$£&*%^&* Democratic Alliance.
    So both the terms Afrikaner and Boer have negative connotations, but since Afrikaner is still the definitive term for the ethnicity and culture of both Capetonians and Boers, we should fight to keep it, not surrender it to the above-mentioned multicultarists by abandoning the use thereof ourselves.
    Last edited by Stormraaf; Friday, March 13th, 2009 at 09:45 AM. Reason: grammar

  6. #6
    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Last Online
    Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017 @ 08:34 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Paleface
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Occupation
    Arbeit Macht Frei
    Politics
    Rightwing / Socialist
    Posts
    2,415
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    12 Posts
    Ja miskien is jy reg maar soos dit vir my lyk is daar te veel uitverkopers en nikswerds wie se koppe vol reenboognasie strooi gepomp is. Mens kan nie veel met hulle uitrig nie so sny daardie kanker uit.

    Liewers n handjievol mense wat in dieselfde rigting trek as om met n klomp onminsaaiers opgesaal te sit, selfs al is hulle "Afrikaans". Die spul sal ons maar net weer van voor af saboteer met die eerste geleentheid wat hulle kry, nes Pienk Frikkie in die 1990's gedoen het.

    Die ergste vyand is die een in mens se eie midde.

    There isn't really a right and a wrong... we know who we are and getting caught up in semantics is probably not what one should spend too much time on.

    The way I've rationalised it (after conversations with some real Boer nationalists was that:

    Afrikaner = a generic term which can be interpreted to include Cape Coloureds, DA / ANC supporters, liberals, rightwingers, Boers etc... basically anybody who has some connection to the Afrikaans language and culture in SA.

    Boer = in the political sense, a term typically denoting Nationalist Rightwing White Afrikaners in SA. It could include people from non-Afrikaans backgrounds who share the same views and who feel themselves at home within the culture.

    Those definitions aren't necessarily absolute but they are in use in certain circles. Like I said, ultimately the idea is to bring people together and to establish unity. We're not obsessed about what people want to call themselves.

  7. #7
    Senior Member troepie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Online
    Friday, May 7th, 2010 @ 08:47 PM
    Ethnicity
    afrikaner
    Country
    South Africa South Africa
    Location
    messina
    Gender
    Occupation
    carpenter
    Politics
    boer ideology
    Religion
    christian
    Posts
    39
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    As jy jouself nie Afrikaner of Boer kan noem nie wat is jy dan? Soos julle sÍ, al twee het een of ander negatiewe beeld. Die benoeming het seker meer te doen met waar jy afstam as oor waar jy gebore is. Die Boer beeld straal meer 'n Gristelike beeld uit as die ander en word minder as 'n veraaier beeld gesien, waar die ander weer meer volks en lojaliteit uitbeeld teen oor die regering van die dag.

    Op die einde van die dag maak dit ook nie saak nie. As die regering hulle Zimbabwe ideologie begin uitvoer maak die naam waaronder jy jouself sien geen verskil. Ons moet eerder op die probleem wat ons in die gesig staar konsentreer. Ons verskille en onderlangse gevegte het ons baie kwesbaar gemaak en so ook die volksgenote wat nie skroom om hulle eie mense te laat slag nie.

    Ek is op hierdie staduim van die geveg glad nie trots om eens deel van hierdie naiewe en blinde deurmekaar volk te wees nie. Ek het nog nooit so 'n spul ruggraatlose mense in my lewe gesien nie. Dan het ons nog die audacity om onsself Duits te noem. Hulle het darem die guts gehad om teen die hele wÍreld op te staan.

    Nee wat. Die naam Boer, Afrikaner, wit mens of wat ook al, verdien om te verdwyn.

  8. #8
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Stormraaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Afrikaner
    Country
    Netherlands Netherlands
    Gender
    Age
    34
    Posts
    961
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    52
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    12 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by troepie View Post
    Nee wat. Die naam Boer, Afrikaner, wit mens of wat ook al, verdien om te verdwyn.
    Soos jy genoem het, daar is niks anders wat ons onsself kan noem nie. Vandaar dat ek voel ons eerder die mees algemene term moet libereer. Selfs diť wie hulself Boere noem verwys soms na die "ander groep" as Kapenaars, so dit kom my voor Afrikaners kan steeds werk as die oorkoepelende term wat beide substelle insluit.

    Wanneer ek na diegene verwys wat vandag se regering ondersteun sal ek eenvoudig praat van verraaiers in ander terme.

  9. #9
    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Last Online
    Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017 @ 08:34 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Paleface
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Occupation
    Arbeit Macht Frei
    Politics
    Rightwing / Socialist
    Posts
    2,415
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    12 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by troepie View Post
    Op die einde van die dag maak dit ook nie saak nie. As die regering hulle Zimbabwe ideologie begin uitvoer maak die naam waaronder jy jouself sien geen verskil. Ons moet eerder op die probleem wat ons in die gesig staar konsentreer. Ons verskille en onderlangse gevegte het ons baie kwesbaar gemaak en so ook die volksgenote wat nie skroom om hulle eie mense te laat slag nie.

    Ek is op hierdie staduim van die geveg glad nie trots om eens deel van hierdie naiewe en blinde deurmekaar volk te wees nie. Ek het nog nooit so 'n spul ruggraatlose mense in my lewe gesien nie.
    Ek stem saam hierso. Te veel stryery oor bog, te veel idiote wat meer geinteresseerd is om hul "koning rugby" te behou as om saam te werk om hulself te bemagtig in SA. Ons laat ons te veel verdeel deur verraaiers, flous deur kopsmokkelaars soos die DA en die media.

  10. #10
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Stormraaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Afrikaner
    Country
    Netherlands Netherlands
    Gender
    Age
    34
    Posts
    961
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    52
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    12 Posts
    Die volgende is aanhalings uit 'n artikel op die onderwerp deur Willie van der Grijp. Die volledige stuk is effe lank om hier te pos, maar die volle teks kan gelees word by http://anbsa.co.za/?p=45.

    Die vyande van Afrikanernasionalisme is baie suksesvol met hul verdelings strategieŽ. Die kunsmatige debat wat geskep word oor die begrippe “Boer” en “Afrikaner” is ‘n baie goeie voorbeeld hiervan. Terwyl die Afrikanernasionalis ook trots Boer is, word enige saambinding of herlewing van Afrikanernasionalisme met twyfel besaai, tot die punt waar almal mekaar wantrou.

    Huidig word die kwessie van Boer of Afrikaner, Boervolk of Afrikanervolk op die spits gedryf. Daar word sover gegaan om te probeer bewys dat daar genetiese verskille tussen Boer en Afrikaner is. Argumente met sogenaamde geskiedkundige bewyse en getuienis word geopper, wat selfs tot gevolg het dat afbrekende beledigings teenoor mekaar geslinger word. Boekdele kan geskryf word waarom dit so is dat Afrikanernasionalisook trots Boer is. Met hierdie artikel word gepoog om diegene wat daaroor twyfel tot die besef te bring dat daar maar net een, en niť twee blanke volke is, wat hier aan die Suidpunt van Afrika deur ons Skepper in aansien geroep is. Die Afrikaner as afsonderlike blanke volk, tesame met diť wat later bygekom het, se oorsprong moet altyd in herinnering geroep word.
    Na bogenoemde volg 'n beskrywing van ons vroŽ volksgeskiedenis, hoofsaaklik om te argumenteer dat daar geen genetiese verskille tussen Boere en Kaapse Afrikaners is nie. Dan ook hoe die gebruik van die term Boere (met 'n hoofletter) ontstaan het, en hoe die Britte die term aangeneem het om na Afrikaners te verwys.

    Dit sluit af:
    Dat Boer en Afrikaner een volk is word oor die wÍreld so aanvaar. Ons moet nie toelaat dat die vyand wat ‘n gevaar sien in die herlewing van Afrikanernasionalisme, nou met die gedagte van twee volke in eie geledere, verdere verdeeldheid saai tussen volksgenotewat bymekaar hoort nie. Genl. Christiaan R de Wet staan vandag in die volksmond bekend as ‘n Afrikaner held, tog is hy soos vele ander bekend as ‘n Boeregeneraal.DŪt dui op die ingeweefdheid van die begrippe Boer en Afrikaner. Die woord Afrikaner en Afrikanervolk word rojaal gebruik deur genl. De Wet sowel as Kommandant Gideon J Scheepers, wat albei Boere was:

    • “Die Afrikaanse Volk moet die verlede nie vergeet nie… Wee hom wat die verlede nie voor oŽ hou nie! Die Afrikaanse Volk word gebou op sy geskiedenis. Wee hom wat hierdie opbou van die Afrikaanse nasie wil verstoor! Ek sÍ: Wee hom! En dit sÍ God ook!” (Genl. Christiaan R. de Wet)
    • “Ek voel my einde kom. Soos die Here wil. As ek die dag op my sterfbed lÍ en my verstand het, sou ek sÍ: Doen geregtigheid, maar bly Afrikaners. As ek tog maar my Volk bymekaar kon bring – mż Afrikanervolk! En almal wat in die siel by ons is, al is dit ‘n Engelsman. Dan sal ons die hand om sy nek sit, nes hy ‘n gebore Afrikaner sou wees.” (Genl. Christiaan R. de Wet)
    • “Hoe heerlik is dit nie om ‘n gekruisigde gemaak te word vir ons land en veral vir ons godsdiens! Hoe die vyand ookal mag juig, die Afrikanervolk sal lewe en nie sterf! Slagtersnek roep om wraak…” (Kommandant Gideon J. Scheepers)
    http://anbsa.co.za/?p=45

Page 1 of 8 123456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Boer vs. Afrikaner Polemiek
    By Theuns in forum Southern Africa
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Wednesday, December 7th, 2011, 10:53 AM
  2. Typical Afrikaner/Boer Surnames
    By Dagna in forum Genealogy & Ancestry DNA
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Wednesday, September 9th, 2009, 03:02 PM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: Wednesday, May 13th, 2009, 01:22 AM
  4. Boer, Afrikaner, Or White-which Are You?
    By Fraxinus Excelsior in forum Southern Africa
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Sunday, October 2nd, 2005, 12:17 PM
  5. What Terminology to use?
    By 21wqre2 in forum Physical Anthropology
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Wednesday, October 29th, 2003, 02:15 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •