View Poll Results: Do you support Pan-Germanism?

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Thread: Pan-Germanism

  1. #1
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    Pan-Germanism

    Disclaimer. As I expect people to confuse Germanic with German again, I will be clear. Pan-Germanism is not the same thing as Pan-Germanicism. It strictly concerns the German people and not the English, Scandinavians, etc.

    Pan-Germanism (German: Pangermanismus or Alldeutsche Bewegung) was a political movement of the 19th century aiming for unity of the German-speaking peoples of Europe.

    Pan-Germanism's origins began in the early 1800s following the Napoleonic Wars. The wars launched a massive new movement that was born in France itself during the French Revolution, Nationalism. Nationalism during the 1800s threatened the old aristocratic regimes. Many ethnic groups of Central and Eastern Europe had been divided for centuries, ruled over by the old Monarchies of the Romanovs and the Habsburgs. Germans, for the most part, had been a loose and disunited people since the Reformation when the Holy Roman Empire was shattered into a patchwork of states. The new German nationalists, mostly young reformers such as Johann Tillmann of East Prussia, sought to unite all the German-speaking and ethnic-German (Volksdeutsche) people.
    More about it:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Germanism

    Do you support pan-Germanism? Do you support a unification of all German countries?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Berrocscir's Avatar
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    Genuine question: When you use the word 'unity', what kind of unity do you mean? Cultural? Political? Ethnic? Economic? Or all of them?

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    I support all unity between Germans. Political, ethnical etc. We are one people. Supporters of Austrian, Swiss, Luxembourgian or Liechtensteinian 'nationalism' are traitors to my eye.

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  5. #4
    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    As long as the states, regions, and tribes have a fair amount of autonomy. I don't believe in centralized government. Though in the modern sense for the German identity (really Germanic as well) to survive we need a large enough nation to secure our interests and power globally. We cannot do this well divided. Though I would propose a loose confederation maybe like the EU rather than a strong central government. The central government should set only basic rules, deal with foriegn relations and help with military protection (though milities and indepedent states should have their own small militaries to ensure the federal government doesn't oppress them).

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    "[...]Wenn es stets zu Schutz und Trutze
    Brüderlich zusammenhält
    Von der Maas bis an die Memel,
    Von der Etsch bis an den Belt[...]"


    Yes, I am definitely a pan-Germanist. I believe that at large we are one Folk and as such, we should be part of the same country. You should not artificially keep apart which by rights belongs together...

    That is all as long as a certain federal-tribal structure is maintained. In my opinion, we should see ourselves as for the most part regionally self-governing tribes united for the Common German Mission --- this is what held us together for so long despite our - strategically important, but disadvantageous - central position. The "philosophical leader" who acts as an overseer makes sure that they keep together and that there are no internal power-struggles.

    So as long as a healthy measure of Regionalism is maintained alongside the wider All-German Consciousness I am all for it ... One Folk: One Reich.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  7. #6
    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    This was essentially the Greek model which worked for some time to keep the larger and stronger Greek enemies at bay. Each state had its own ruler, military and to some degree culture, but they were united by a common culture and language and people. They united against common foes and would regularly meet and interact with each other for governing and such (like an allthing meeting of leaders). Sometimes they'd fight each other but that was usually kept to a minimal but also helped to keep them strong.

    I'd say in modern times though to maintain an air force and navy you would need the larger nation. The troops (army) should mainly be from local sources fighting for a united cause. Once a region looses its own army it has lost its power. Even if a militia or local army is not trained as well, it is still better. People will fight better for a true cause than say like the U.S. invading Israels enemies. Centralizing the military has too many opportunities for abuse. This way the most the nation could do is air strikes without local regional support.

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    Senior Member Gustavus Magnus's Avatar
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    I believe in Bismarck's concept of "Klein Deutschland", but these days religion isn't really a matter. So yes, I would support Grossdeutschland.

    I actually have a collection of stamps from that time period, for when I feel a bit nostalgic.

    Leave behind the weak, we must take the strong in hand:
    Together are the wicked violent forces in command

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  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    This was essentially the Greek model which worked for some time to keep the larger and stronger Greek enemies at bay. Each state had its own ruler, military and to some degree culture, but they were united by a common culture and language and people. They united against common foes and would regularly meet and interact with each other for governing and such (like an allthing meeting of leaders). Sometimes they'd fight each other but that was usually kept to a minimal but also helped to keep them strong.
    .

    No, that's too federal/regional. The army should not be a regional concept. And note the difference between autonomy and self-governing. Autonomy is de-facto independence, and no I don''t support that. Just a Stammesreich.

    I believe in Bismarck's concept of "Klein Deutschland", but these days religion isn't really a matter. So yes, I would support Grossdeutschland.
    Why the divisive vision of Kleindeutschland?

    Also, the pointer of religion doesn't ring true in the slightest. Bavaria was included in the Kleindeutsch solution and is staunchly Catholic. The same goes for the majority of Baden, and the majority of Westphalia.

    It was all about power-struggles between Prussia and Austria, and when Prussia finally managed to also exclude Austria from being the most powerful not only on an economic level but also on a political level --- that's when "unification", which in truth was just a "Greater Prussia", came to frutition...
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Also, the pointer of religion doesn't ring true in the slightest. Bavaria was included in the Kleindeutsch solution and is staunchly Catholic. The same goes for the majority of Baden, and the majority of Westphalia.
    You are forgetting the Kulturkampf: "Seien Sie außer Sorge, nach Canossa gehen wir nicht – weder körperlich noch geistig!"

    Regardless, I am against reviving the rotting cadaver of Christianity, especially not its present denominations. A German faith should have increased significance, though.

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    First, what is a German? Certainly you must exclude all who are ethnically non-European and non-Germanic, but then what? Do you include the Dutch and Flemish? The Alsatians? The German diaspora in America and elsewhere?

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