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Thread: Is Mediterranean Blood a Foreign Component in the Germanic World?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    But then what is it that makes an Italian's dark hair more foreign than a German's dark hair?
    The source of the dark hair can be different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    If we're asking the question: "Is Mediterranean Blood a Foreign Component in the Germanic World?", then there must be something we identify as foreign about Mediterranean genes - and what is that if not the dark pigmentation?
    Pigmentation is just one trait, race is never a single trait, but a combination of many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    It is often said that the classic Nordid and classic Med are morphologically similar, other than in pigmentation.
    They are similar, but not the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    So if the same Med pigmentation we classify as foreign to Germanics is partially present among Germanics, then could those Germanics not be said to carry partially foreign blood?
    Depends. There is of course a question about the time line, it could be possible that Meds have been present in northern populations before they emerged as Germanics, and thus would be pretty indigenous to them (which I would highly doubt though).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    There are genetic overlaps and so perhaps some Germanics shouldn't be so quick to deem Mediterraneans as racially inferior.
    This is quite a plebeian attitude, no truth is dependent on your personal circumstances, if one denies truth just because it could have non pleasant consequences for him, then all it shows is that he is not capable of being ideological, and those persons should never have any say anyways.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Maybe not in the southern part of the Germanic world. Nice girls in the beginning by the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    no truth is dependent on your personal circumstances, if one denies truth just because it could have non pleasant consequences for him, then all it shows is that he is not capable of being ideological, and those persons should never have any say anyways.
    I could say the same about you Jager, given your Nordicist attitude. Would you be a Nordicist yourself if you were yourself a classic Alpinid? I doubt it. As always, you're misconstruing my position. If I were biased - due to my own phenotype - surely I'd be arguing on the side of dark pigment being inherent to pure Germanics, wouldn't I? So save your condescending presumptions. I'm actually suggesting that dark pigmentation may possibly be a foreign component, thus degrading myself to 'impure'. The point I'm making is that whether or not Mediterranean blood is a foreign component, many Germanics demonstrate similar aspects of appearance to Meds, therefore it's difficult to draw a clear genetic dividing line between Germania and the Latin lands.
    "If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    I could say the same about you Jager, given your Nordicist attitude. Would you be a Nordicist yourself if you were yourself a classic Alpinid? I doubt it.
    Speculations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    As always, you're misconstruing my position. If I were biased - due to my own phenotype - surely I'd be arguing on the side of dark pigment being inherent to pure Germanics, wouldn't I?
    I recognized this, and this was actually why I used the neutral (third) person "one", it really wasn't my intention to accuse you directly of doing so, but evidently you reckoned you could score a point with such a remark, which I consider worse enough.
    I admit I might be not skilled enough of making such intentions of mine clear when using the English language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    The point I'm making is that whether or not Mediterranean blood is a foreign component, many Germanics demonstrate similar aspects of appearance to Meds, therefore it's difficult to draw a clear genetic dividing line between Germania and the Latin lands.
    This is correct, however, if identified as foreign (and inferior) we can take actions in reducing the (relative) amount of "Germanics" possessing such traits, to return to a more native Germanic outlook.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Isn't the Goebbels/Mediterranid thing rather overdone? Sure, he was a bit of a weed, had unflattering haircuts and couldn't pose very well, but is he really that foreign looking for a Germanic? Are there better pics out there?
    No, he was not foreign-looking - from what we can deduce - at all: Just that he wasn't a blonde-hair, blue-eyed, yardstick-drawn Hyperborean Über-Nordid. That was the point there, alongside the other, more subtly hinted point of:

    There is no such thing as "A Mediterranean People" as much as Monsieur Sarkozy would like to believe it: The peoples even in the European part of the Mediterranean coastline are Romance, Hellenic, South-Slavic, etc. respectively.

    To lump them into the same boat to determine its foreign or non-foreign immediate background would be like lumping "all Northern Europeans", namely Celtics, Germanics, Baltics, Fennics and by some extension North-Slavics into one boat as far as ethnogenesis is concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    However, if this is true, this would well the presence of 'darker' people in Germany/Austria.
    No, it would not necessarily. The information which Hauke Haien has provided would not explain anything either. Remember that these sources date back to pre-Völkerwanderung times. That in being shifted westwards by the Huns and other Steppe folk we automatically intermixed and mingled on a grande scale does not follow immediately.

    Whilst it is likely just as unfounded to conclude that all achievements in European history were made by Nordics, as Arthur Kemp & Co. would suggest --- it does hold a certain spark of possibly, perhaps even likely truth: A significant shift westwards, and perhaps even northwards of some of our ancestors.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    The Germanic world has a relationship with the meditteranid world. They rejected it. Our ancestors, Theoderic the great

    even forbade intermarriage with Romans. Why?
    Wagner called for a Germanic Holy War against Southern Europe.
    I honestly do not see a difference between a meditteranid and an arab.

    I can admire Arabs but I want my descendants in a thousand years to be Germanic and look my children do now

    not like meditteranids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vandal Lord View Post
    Not all Spanish or Italians are Mediterranean in subrace. They have their share of Nordids, Alpines and other subraces.
    I agree. A Nordic Spaniard:



    I can't help but get an impression from both of you that you see someone like myself as some how "tainted" for being 1/8 Spanish or that it cancels out my 7/8 Germanic Heritage. My Spanish great grandfather was from Northern Spain and was of Castile origin. I don't even look Mediterranean, my natural hair color is light auburn with a little blond, I have fair skin and green eyes. But it doesn't matter I don't identify with the Spanish as I said in a previous post. I consider myself Germanic and only date or potentially marry a Germanic woman. I am thick skinned and if someone sees me as tainted or as less Germanic, then too bad I will not stop identifying as Germanic and I will not leave this movement.
    If you don't identify with being Spanish, then that's all the better.

    PS. If you have a thick skin then no comments should bother you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul View Post
    Agreed. But then what is it that makes an Italian's dark hair more foreign than a German's dark hair? Do we base that on assumptions about ancestry? If we're asking the question: "Is Mediterranean Blood a Foreign Component in the Germanic World?", then there must be something we identify as foreign about Mediterranean genes - and what is that if not the dark pigmentation?
    As I said, there is more to subrace than pigmentation. Facial structure, bone shape and other variables have more of a say in determining it. We could use the nose to determine whether one has Alpinid or Dinarid influence. Etc.

    I have no problem with the Mediterranean subrace anyway. It's an Europid subrace and a German subrace too. Mixing with a Spaniard or Italian would be another story. I'd prefer not to because of their differing culture, language and lifestyle.

    It is often said that the classic Nordid and classic Med are morphologically similar, other than in pigmentation.
    That's correct.

    So if the same Med pigmentation we classify as foreign to Germanics is partially present among Germanics, then could those Germanics not be said to carry partially foreign blood?
    Not more than you could say that blonde Australian Aboriginals are Germanic. As I said, there is more to subrace than pigmentation.

    Blond haired blue eyed girls - not Germanic





    Brown haired brown eyed girls - Germanic







    Do you see where the difference lays? Facial shape and structure.

    Quote Originally Posted by forkbeard View Post
    The Germanic world has a relationship with the meditteranid world. They rejected it. Our ancestors, Theoderic the great even forbade intermarriage with Romans. Why?
    Because the Romans were a different kind of civilization. It's about culture clashes. Their hair and eye colour wasn't the deciding factor. Did Theodoric the Great forbid marriages between dark and light pigmented Germanics?

    I honestly do not see a difference between a meditteranid and an arab.
    Then you need glasses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    Because the Romans were a different kind of civilization. It's about culture clashes. Their hair and eye colour wasn't the deciding factor.
    As if you could know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    Did Theodoric the Great forbid marriages between dark and light pigmented Germanics?
    Maybe there weren't many dark pigmented Germanics back then?
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    As if you could know that.
    I can easily deduct. We know that Germanic-Roman marriages were forbidden, so we have an account of that. We have no account of any inter-Germanic marriages forbidden based on hair and eye color. We have an account of Nordic looking Romans (and Greeks and others) but no laws stipulating that it was permitted to marry Nordic looking Romans.

    Maybe there weren't many dark pigmented Germanics back then?
    There were. Some Visigoths for example. I haven't it handy, but once I find it I'm going to post an engraving. They didn't embody the fair Nordic ideal.

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    Dark pigmented Germanics always existed, even as far north as Iceland. I remember that an Icelandic member back on TNP vouched for the fact that due to knowing the family, Miss Iceland & Miss World 2005 --- Unnur Birna Vilhjalmsdottir --- was fully Icelandic, despite her dark hair pigment. (Quite a cute-looking lassie BTW )



    Egil Skallagrimsson is described in the corresponding Egil's Saga as being swarthy, but nothing leads one to conclude that there were any influences from outside Iceland.

    [no suitable picture, all are paintings --- so I'd rather go with the description of the book]

    On the other hand, people in the Mediterranean sphere may well be of light pigment: Another example that comes to mind immediately would be the former football ace Alfredo di Stefano - Argentinian of Italian ancestry, who was actually nicknamed "Saeta Rubia":



    Also, whilst staying in sports, consider dirty blonde/sandy brown, green-eyed Rubens Barrichello, F1 racing driver from Brazil, of Italian ancestry. At least an intermediate amount of Blondism thus involved.



    And to counterpole that again we again have metrically and morphologically Nordid director Ingmar Bergman - fully Swedish, dark hair and dark eyes.



    The blondism = Germanic argument doesn't stand, especially since the blondest, most blue-eyed nations on the world are by definition Finland, then Estonia, then Latvia, and only then - coming in just afore Lithuania - Sweden. Of course, there is a good case to be made that the Baltics had some German influence due to the German order and the Swedish rule (Courland and Swedish Livonia f.ex.) - as vice-versa (the ancient Prussians were a Baltic people - some words were retained in Prussian dialect f.ex., the last temple of the Baltic ancestral faith stood in ) ... and that there is a closer casual ancient connection than oft assumed (cf. God Deiwas [lit.]/Deivs [lat.] vs. Teiwaz [pr.-germ.] ---- the similarity between balt. Perkunas/Perkunos vs. slav. Perun is also doubted by leading scholars on Baltic mythology)) --- but as a pointer of the origin of the exceeding blondism in this area, I doubt that the Germanics can be blamed for that. That ran strong already before those Order-Prussians even darkened it down.

    Oh, and not to forget that ancient Hallstatt was a Celtic town in Austria.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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