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Thread: Chivalry

  1. #51
    Senior Member Guntwachar's Avatar
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    When i'm at a door and someone walks behind me i always open it for them, so i dont only do it for elderly or women.

    With seats in a bus or so its mostly only for elderly people, because its quite simple i had a accident myself in the past and i cant stand to long:o

    But yeah it would be better if both men and women should learn to respect eachother more in general, also on jobs alot of men dont accept a women being the boss of them but a woman has the same with a male boss more often these days.
    If christ is the answer then what is the question?

  2. #52
    Senior Member CrystalRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    Hmmm.. I'm not quite sure how to interpret this. Are you saying that males and females losing their respective roles is a 'great' evolutionary step? If that's what you're saying, I'm afraid that we definitely don't see eye to eye. Separate gender roles are what keep society functioning in a sane and healthy fashion...


    well i believe what i had said was..

    socially we're evolving and it's great! women should be independent! however men should not be a stepping stool.. for having good upbringing.

    it's a good thing to have strong independent 'people' in our culture is it not? and i'll say it again... men should not be treated like crap for being polite. men and women, simply need to know their role in society.. while still having a strong, independent attitude. what's wrong with the two together?

    i'm not sure if i'm making myself clear...

  3. #53
    Senior Member MockTurtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalRose View Post
    well i believe what i had said was..

    socially we're evolving and it's great! women should be independent! however men should not be a stepping stool.. for having good upbringing.

    it's a good thing to have strong independent 'people' in our culture is it not? and i'll say it again... men should not be treated like crap for being polite. men and women, simply need to know their role in society.. while still having a strong, independent attitude. what's wrong with the two together?

    i'm not sure if i'm making myself clear...
    Yes this is much clearer. As stated, I wasn't completely sure, which is why I said 'IF'.

    And I agree, men shouldn't be treated badly for being polite, and both sexes should be strong.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Eccardus Teutonicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    In the past, if a man saw a girl or woman standing up on a bus, he would have give up his seat. If he saw her carrying lots of heavy groceries, he would immediately take them from her and put them in her car. Men would open doors, pull out chairs and always abide by the rule "ladies first."

    Those acts of kindness and many of the like are known as "chivalry," which is defined as the act of exercising or exhibiting any form of gallantry, courtliness, politeness, courtesy, good manners, or loyalty. It is when men hold doors open until the women walk through. Or be the last one on and off the elevators in favor of the women who are also there.
    This is very appropriate considering the Germanic origin of courteous behaviour towards women. It comes largely from the respect that was due to women in Germanic culture, for it was women alone who could communicate with the gods directly; there were no male Völva, and seiđr was the exclusive realm of the females of society. In fact, the proto-Germanic languages had no male equivalent of "seeress".

    Chivalry was one of those few carry-overs from pre-Christian society that the Christians, whose religious culture was highly misogynistic (as all Semitic, and many Mediterranean cultures for that matter, are). Is Chivalry outdated? Considering it was a watered down form of old Germanic values and ideals, I think it was only a matter of time before it devolved even further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    Nowadays, many feel that such acts are not practiced as much as in the past, if at all, especially here at Florida A&M University. Many feel that it has gotten worse.

    "I've had guys slam doors in my face and not think twice about it," said Miranda Edwards, a fourth-year co-op business student from St. Petersburg.

    Some students said they feel chivalry starts from a young age and that parents do not stress it enough.

    They feel as if mothers and fathers should be able to teach their children these social courtesies because the father has dealt with women throughout his life and the mother knows how a woman should be treated.
    I think the big issue when it comes to parents is that the parents of our generation (meaning people born in the late 1970s through the early 1990s) all come from a time when time-honoured values and traditions were torn down by anti-culturalist movements like feminism, the popular "civil rights" movement (i.e. MLK rather than Malcolm X), anti-war movement, and absolutely most degenerate and disgusting of all, the "sexual revolution". Our parents come from the days of the anti-Western revolution. It seems perfectly logical that we should see no one taught chivalry, considering what slime our generation is crawling out of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    "This day in age, parents don't really teach it because parents are so young these days, they're probably still learning it themselves," said Jay Collins, a second-year business student from Philadelphia.
    This one is complete nonsense. Parents are not getting any younger, they're getting older-- it is too hard now to afford children, which is why European birthrates are dropping so rapidly (among many, many other factors).

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    Some students also feel parents are becoming less and less involved in their children's social development, and they rely on schools to teach children.
    This is another problem which I think arises from the professionalising of all things in our society; children are now trained for their jobs from an early age in Europe, while in America they are simply indoctrinated to get "a good job" that pays well, because ultimately material wealth is the most valued thing in our society, lending to self-centred worldview that dominates the West and further contributes to the decline of selfless acts like Chivalry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    Others said parents, more often than not, raise their daughters to be independent and that they don't need anything from the opposite sex.

    "Women these days are so independent that we don't really need it (chivalry)," said Sherika Tisby, a fourth-year English student from Jacksonville.

    Some women feel as if men know that chivalry goes well with the ladies and they do it just to make a good impression, not because it is the right thing to do. Many women feel chivalry should continue, no matter how old a man gets.
    Regarding "independent women" see my self-centred worldview comment above. Feminism is nothing but a selfish abandonment of social duty, the same as what the modern male has become. The only difference is Feminism is an active social movement, while the lazy, drunken, money-driven male is a social institution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    Sometimes chivalry can be taken advantage of; some men at FAMU feel women take their chivalry for granted.

    Collins said men are unappreciated and do not get enough credit for going out of their way to open doors. And he is not the only one.

    "I opened a door for a group of girls the other day. None of them tried to grab the door so I wouldn't have to hold it anymore, and I got not one 'thank you'," said Aaron Drake, a second-year political science student from Philadelphia.
    This comes from a very flawed philosophy that one should do courteous things for others for a reward. It dominates today's material wealth-dominated society, where everything has to have a tangible reward, if not monetary than the petty emotional reward that comes from a "thank you".

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    Seward Hamilton, a psychology professor, said he feels that a thank you is not needed just to do something courteous for another human being, and that it all boils down to self respect and values.
    This is a man who has read the story of the Unknown Scout. (The story of William Boyce, founder of the BSA, lost in London fog was assisted by a Scout who help him find his way to his hotel, after which Boyce tried to tip the boy and he refused the money, saying famously "It was my duty as a Scout".)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    "If I didn't know better I would think that I was on a regular street corner rather than a University the way people conduct themselves here," Hamilton said.

    But it doesn't make a difference to most male students here.

    "If I feel like it, I might open a door for a girl but do not expect it," said Jared Owens, a second-year business student from Syracuse, N.Y.
    See above comments regarding the modern self-centred worldview. Here is a typical example of the perfectly ignorant and dishonourable shamelessness of modernity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    Some men do feel chivalry is very important and is still shown by many men on campus.

    "Chivalry has been missing from the black culture for some time now, and the black nation won't begin to get it back until they realize it's lost," said Roscoe McNealy, a math professor and associate department chairman.
    Chivalry is foreign to black culture, so it's no big surprise it's been missing for a while. Chivalry is thoroughgoingly northern European, and nothing else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    On the other hand, there are some women who feel that men do make efforts to open doors or to be conscious of it but are sometimes influenced by other men not to, for fear of looking soft or less of a man.
    Now this is utter nonsense arising from a common female misunderstanding about males- a misunderstanding that has led to men like Tim Allen to be the common representation of males in this country. Chivalry is not considered "unmanly", and I've spoken to a relatively large demographic on the topic; chivalry is considered unnecessary because a man doesn't get anything back for it. It's disregarded, as silly as it may sound, because feminism gave women what they wanted and they shouldn't come looking to men for anything any more. This at least is the general consensus of anti-Chivalrics to whom I have spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    Huberta Jackson-Lowman, a psychology professor, said she feels chivalry is shown occasionally and it's refreshing when she sees it.

    "The Women's Liberation Movement caused a lot of confusion in terms of chivalry," Jackson-Lowman said.

    "It's needed because of misogyny, and should be displayed by both sides."
    A grosser misrepresentation of the women's "liberation" movement has never been perpetrated: it was their expressed goal and aim to eradicate things like chivalry in the interests of establishing a female-dominated society. There is no confusion about feminist attitudes towards chivalric conduct, which originates from a time of their invented "patriarchy".

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    Whatcha think?
    Is chivalry outdated?
    Men, are you chivalrous towards the ladies?
    Ladies, do you find chivalry necessary, romantic or boring?
    Add anything else.
    Is chivalry outdated? No, it's too weak, too diluted. It is an act of post-conversion masculinity: purely for show, not of the spirit. Ideally, pre-chivalry Germanic conduct is preferred, where women are honoured because of their maternal role in society (which is a lot more than just being mothers). Women who accept the duty and responsibility inherent to their sex should be honoured as much as whores should be spat upon and kicked in the gutter. Chivalry is the step to further the advent of the Spenglerian Winter; it is a devolution from the culture of the Springtide of Society, when men and women equally give honour where honour is due and accept their social responsibility.

    On the actuality, physicality, and realisation of chivalry, acts of courteousness and kindness for the physically weaker sex is expected of the man who wishes to call himself a man. It of course goes without saying that the morally weak of both genders, those without honour and virtue, should not be extended anything but the heel of a boot. For those who preserve their honour, who display the loyalty to their people due, and who answer duty swiftly and resolutely, the mark of the Higher and Greater of mankind is upon them, and they will naturally act accordingly: honourable women are those who extend the comfort of their heart(not their body) and strength of spirit and honourable men are those who extend the strength of their arms and power of their virtue. In this way, both accept their natural and right place in the world.

    I live in this way; honour should be met with respect, and dishonour likewise with lack thereof. For those of whom I know not whether they deserve respect, I don't think it's wrong to give them the benefit of the doubt and conduct myself as the oath and law provide, just as that unknown scout in the London fog:

    "On my honour, I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and my Country,
    To obey the Scout Law*,
    To help other people at all times,
    And to keep myself physically strong,
    mentally awake, and morally straight."

    *A Scout is: Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.

    or, in England:

    "On my honour,
    I promise that I will do my best
    To do my duty to God and to the Queen,
    To help other people
    And to keep the Scout Law."

    I am not reluctant to say I believe at the core of the Scout Law, that is to say the philosophies expressed in the Scout Law, is the code by which every boy and subsequently every man should live.
    οὐκ ἐμοῦ, ἀλλὰ τοῦ λόγου ἀκούσαντας ὁμολογεῖν σοφόν ἐστιν ἓν πάντα εἶναί.
    Heraclitus

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    That is incorrect, because it makes them feel more welcome in our society and more likely to move here. Same deal with employing illegals just because they're cheaper. The government has a lot of blame for our immigration problem, but people that just say 'oh well' and welcome them here are also to blame.
    Holding doors open and giving up a seat on a bus to someone who needs it more than you is nothing similar to employing them. How do you mean they will be more likely to move here? They're already here! If I'm holding a door for a Mexican, do you think some thought process goes on in her head "Gee, these gringos are so nice, I think I won't go back to my shitty country after all!"? Of course not.

    I don't think acting like uncivilized savages is the way to solve our immigration problem, in fact I think in a lot of ways the lowering standard of public decency invites them to come here. Look how most 'white people' dress and behave in public compared with many decades ago: we're informal to the point of being complete slobs. These third worlders see this and feel they can fit right in. We should differentiate ourselves from them in our dress, behavior, and speech in any way we can. I think it is sad we're starting to consider basic civilized behavior as "going out of our way to be nice" when it is really just common courtesy.

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    Interesting to see how a majority of people describe "chivalry".
    "For the authentic revolutionary conservative, what really counts is to be faithful not to past forms and institutions, but rather to principles of which such forms and institutions have been particular expressions, adequate for a specific period of time and in a specific geographical area." Julius Evola - Men Among the Ruins

  7. #57
    Senior Member CrystalRose's Avatar
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    Chivalry[1] is a term related to the medieval institution of knighthood. It is usually associated with ideals of knightly virtues, honour and courtly love. The word is derived from the French word chevalier, indicating one who rides a horse (Fr. cheval).

    Today, the terms chivalry and chivalrous are used to describe courteous behavior, especially that of men towards women.

    www.wikipedia.com

  8. #58
    Senior Member Fafner's Avatar
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    Well, I think we should ask also "where are the ladies?", because there are many women that seem to have lost that quality; and others, as mockTurtle and CrystalRose said, feel as if you were trying to get laid with them.

    However I like being polite with women and other people (elderly, adults, kids, etc)
    "Cuando la Patria está en peligro, todo está permitido excepto no defenderla"
    José de San Martín

  9. #59
    Senior Member CrystalRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fafner View Post
    Well, I think we should ask also "where are the ladies?", because there are many women that seem to have lost that quality; and others, as mockTurtle and CrystalRose said, feel as if you were trying to get laid with them.

    However I like being polite with women and other people (elderly, adults, kids, etc)
    so, in your town/country you don't see any ladies?

    i said:
    some women in social settings seem to think a man is hitting on her if he is simply polite.
    (Don't say that i think they're trying to 'get laid' with me!) i say this because the mentality is if someone is polite they usually want something in return. a perfect example: a man buying a woman a drink. is he buying her that drink so she can go home with someone else?

    ..that's just my observation in social settings. i don't know how it might be in other countries.

    when a man is polite by opening the door, giving up his seat etc etc i often blush and say thank you! (it makes my day ) most of the time i'm in shock. because i don't expect it and see very little politeness in the world.

    lack of politeness. are we dealing with a bunch of fed up people? confused because they don't know 'their role' in society.


    ..maybe if there were more chivalrous behavior the ladies would come out from hiding lol lol :p

  10. #60
    Senior Member Fafner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalRose View Post
    so, in your town/country you don't see any ladies?

    i said:
    some women in social settings seem to think a man is hitting on her if he is simply polite.
    (Don't say that i think they're trying to 'get laid' with me!) i say this because the mentality is if someone is polite they usually want something in return. a perfect example: a man buying a woman a drink. is he buying her that drink so she can go home with someone else?

    ..that's just my observation in social settings. i don't know how it might be in other countries.

    when a man is polite by opening the door, giving up his seat etc etc i often blush and say thank you! (it makes my day ) most of the time i'm in shock. because i don't expect it and see very little politeness in the world.

    lack of politeness. are we dealing with a bunch of fed up people? confused because they don't know 'their role' in society.


    ..maybe if there were more chivalrous behavior the ladies would come out from hiding lol lol :p
    You're right, you didn't say that. I think I did it to give just a little more dramatism . Sorry if I made a mistake, Crystal. :o

    I didn't say we don't have ladies here, it's as equal as any other part of the world, but there are some girls of lack of manners. I suppose in your country not every women are ladies (sadly). I just meant that you've got everything, from girls that are like princesses to those who act like truckers... as well as men
    "Cuando la Patria está en peligro, todo está permitido excepto no defenderla"
    José de San Martín

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