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Thread: Luxembourg, Between Romance Europe and Germanic Europe

  1. #51
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    I think Luxemburgisch is even closer to High German than the real allemanic and bavarian dialects because at the time as Standard High German was established, most input came from the middle german dialects (and Luxemburgisch is a Middle German dialect). The upper German dialects also influenced Standard High German, but less than the Middle German branch.

    So it would even make more sense if Austria declared its standard dialect ('Ostmittelbairisch') as an official language 'Austrian'. But we do not so we seem to be more solidary with our German brothers than the Luxemburgs are.

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    Who’s Afraid of Luxembourg?

    Luxembourg is about as cuddly as countries come: prosperous, picturesque and delightfully tiny. At 999 square miles, it is the smallest but one of the European Union states. You could drive its length (55 miles) or its width (35 miles) in less time than it takes to watch a feature-length movie — provided you don’t stop at one of the many touristy villages or vineyards along the way. The capital, also called Luxembourg, is a cozy city of barely 100,000 souls; its major problem is not drugs or urban decay, but the apparently unfixable fact that it’s rather boring.

    Source: NYT

    Source URL: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/17/whos-afraid-of-greater-luxembourg/?hp

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  4. #53
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    Luxemburg

    GreatPost. This answered many questions I had about Luxemburg. When looking through my ancestors immigration records they either listed they were German, Prussian or from Luxemburg. I finally found out that they were all from Luxemburg, referred to themselves as Germans, but the Americans would refer to it as Prussia at the time (1840's). I did not realize I was spelling it "non-Germanically" by spelling Luxembourg.....that will not happen again.

    Question.............Does anyone have any info on the Treveri. Information I read clains they are Celtic but I know they referred to themselves as Germanic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NikulasStrongbear View Post
    GreatPost. This answered many questions I had about Luxemburg. When looking through my ancestors immigration records they either listed they were German, Prussian or from Luxemburg. I finally found out that they were all from Luxemburg, referred to themselves as Germans, but the Americans would refer to it as Prussia at the time (1840's). I did not realize I was spelling it "non-Germanically" by spelling Luxembourg.....that will not happen again.
    In the United States (& the Anglo-American / Francophilic English speaking world in general) wherever there is a French alternative name/spelling for a German toponym the French spelling is favored and considered 'correct' spelling in English; choosing the German spelling can get you marked down in school, and if you persist stubbornly, in trouble. (trust me, I know) ... and on a less political note, some of the more extreme Frenchified words like Cologne / Köln for example, won't be at all understandable to the native English speaker if you choose to insist on the German name/spelling.

    Relevant to you in the United States, prior to WW1&2 swinging political correctness in an Anti-German direction, all continental Germanic immigrants having origins south of the Danes (Dutch, Swiss, Luxemburgers, etc./ people whose ancestors' ethnogenisis lay within the borders of the "First Reich") like their brethren back in Europe, would happily self-identify as 'German' in a general sense in addition to whatever their specific regional sub-ethnicity.

    After the wars and the choice to divide, shrink, ethnically cleanse, and shame Germany & the Volksdeutsche/Germans as official and unofficial US/Anglo-American policy, the term 'German', having become a dirty word so to speak caused those whose immediate ancestors were not inside the borders of the "Second Reich" in 1871* to avoid being 'German' like the proverbial plague. Partially this is a logical shift in the English use of the word German from an ethnic/cultural term of ancient nobility, history, & honor to a more legalistic nationality connotation specific to those whose citizenry belonged to a post 1871 Berlin/Bonn based government & state.

    *not only have I met Americans of Austrian & Tyrolean & Swiss & Alsatian etc. origins, regions outside the 1871 borders, who are adamantly 'not German, at all' but I've met folks whose ancestral origins were outside the new shrunken 1945 borders - Prussia, Silesia, Sudetenland, Pomerania, etc., with the surname of 'Lowe', 'Klausenberg', 'Rohrbach' etc., whose families were part of the ethnic cleansing & rape of the German east, who not only are adamantly 'not German', the young ones my age have been taught they are 'Polish-American' or 'Czech-American' instead...

    Quote Originally Posted by NikulasStrongbear View Post
    Question.............Does anyone have any info on the Treveri. Information I read clains they are Celtic but I know they referred to themselves as Germanic.
    The simplest answer on the Trevari, as to whether they are Celtic or Germanic, is, 'YES, both'.

    The longer answer is that they were a Celtic people, who like many Celtic tribes who existed in what is the southwestern portion of today's German Sprachraum were culturally & linguistically assimilated into becoming German. The Treveri were not destroyed by the expansion of the Germans, they became part of the modern German population, assimilated specifically into the Franks.

    So during Caesar's time it would be accurate to call them a Celtic/Gaulic people, and later Germanic/German, though according to Roman scholars of the time they spoke a Celtic language while 'boasting' of their Germanic heredity.


  6. #55
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    Racially or language wise racially they are Gallic (Celtic) language wise both

  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwulf View Post
    Racially or language wise racially they are Gallic (Celtic) language wise both
    How sure are you of this?
    “War is waged by men; not by beasts, or by gods. It is a peculiarly human activity. To call it a crime against mankind is to miss at least half its significance; it is also the punishment of a crime.” - Frederic Manning, The Middle Parts of Fortune

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    I can't be 100% sure but they are pretty far south

  10. #59
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    Thorwulf, Luxembourg is not in the south, it's in the west - none of its national languages are celtic - and they're not Gauls.
    “War is waged by men; not by beasts, or by gods. It is a peculiarly human activity. To call it a crime against mankind is to miss at least half its significance; it is also the punishment of a crime.” - Frederic Manning, The Middle Parts of Fortune

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    Of course not they don't speak a Gallic language but they are racially Gallic

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