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Thread: Partial Epicanthus/Pseudo Epicanthus?

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    Partial Epicanthus/Pseudo Epicanthus?

    After browsing through some old classification threads, I noticed a certain feature that was quite commonly labeled as partial epicanthus. The three pictures below demonstrate what I mean: a minor crease of skin at the inner corner of the eye, not necessarily covering the inner eye, as in mongoloids, but nonetheless indicating a tendency in that direction.







    What's interesting to note is that it is often present in individuals who at first glance appear in no way Mongoloid. At my university in northern England, I've noticed this trait very frequently among ethnically English (and Irish) young females (although seldom over 25), and much less frequently in males. The individuals who carry the feature are not necessarily northern English, even though my university is within the Danelaw, so to speak.

    It's much too common (and non-localised) in Britain to automatically chalk it down to mongoloid/Lappoid influence. One of the individuals posted above is non-British. I'd like to know some other thoughts on the trait. Were the original classifers mistaken or is it indeed epicanthus? Is it common among Europeans where you live? Is it necessarily of Mongoloid origin?

    Thanks.

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    I've assumed this is a natural deviation in Northern Europe. I've made threads on eyeshape on several forums and haven't got any takers. Apparently they seem to be outright ignored in taxonomy unless the eyeshape looks oriental.

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    I bookmarked this page a while ago. This suggests the "mongoloid" appearance in Finns , presumably the eye fold included, is not mongoloid but an old Cro Magnid trait.
    http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wor...-baltic-finns/

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    Quote Originally Posted by forkbeard View Post
    I bookmarked this page a while ago. This suggests the "mongoloid" appearance in Finns , presumably the eye fold included, is not mongoloid but an old Cro Magnid trait.
    http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wor...-baltic-finns/

    Yes, I doubt very much that the partial epicanthus visible in some Europeans is evidence of any recent east Asian/Mongoloid ancestry--but instead, a leftover from the days before differentiation between Mongolids and Europids.

    This trait is even found in some Bushmen and other very old types found in Africa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by forkbeard View Post
    I bookmarked this page a while ago. This suggests the "mongoloid" appearance in Finns , presumably the eye fold included, is not mongoloid but an old Cro Magnid trait.
    http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wor...-baltic-finns/
    Genetics show Finns to be significantly Uralic in ancestry. However, it's true that the majority of girls I see with the trait in England are cromagnoid.

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    Personally, I disagree with those who call anything an epicanthic fold other than what what the term is intended to mean. The only individual above that I would say has close to one, but also could be a result of picture angel, would be the third individual. Too often I have seen individuals classified as having an epicanthic fold, who in reality do not. The skin wilting down towards the eye is not indicative of nor qualifies as an epicanthic fold. Often this occurs in an individual due to age and the loss of elasticity in the skin-- everything migrates downwards (nose, ears, breasts, etc.). In younger individuals it could be due to a heavier browridge, deeperset eyes, fatty deposits, weaker elasticity, etc. I would never call individuals such as those in the first two pics as having even a weak epicanthic fold. There is absolutely no fold covering the inner canthus.

    Some good examples of epicanthic folds:
    http://www.flowersclinic.com/gallery...y=12&RecordNo=

    I seen some individuals on this forum refer to the fold that I think you are asking about as the Nordic Eyefold:

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=4635


    For the record, I have seen fully europid blonde haired blue eyed individuals with a full epicanthic fold...... they always get accused of being part Asian.
    "I do not know what horrified me most at that time: the economic misery of my companions, their moral and ethical coarseness, or the low level of their intellectual development." Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

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    My boys had a slight one when toddlers.


    Though it is gone now. Isn't the fat layer just a way of staving off cold and preventing the eye freezing. Young children would be more vulnerable to this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QuietWind View Post
    Personally, I disagree with those who call anything an epicanthic fold other than what what the term is intended to mean. The only individual above that I would say has close to one, but also could be a result of picture angel, would be the third individual.
    [..]
    Some good examples of epicanthic folds:
    http://www.flowersclinic.com/gallery...y=12&RecordNo=
    Hm, given that these pictures are all of Asian nature, it is not really conducive to compare them with Europeans, who will certainly show a weaker trend in this trait.
    And I have to say that to me, the first one looks the most Mongoloid-like, at any rate, so far it seems safe to assume that if not foreign it is at least a primitive trait.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Who is the red-haired gal you posted. She's quite lovely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allenson View Post
    Who is the red-haired gal you posted. She's quite lovely.
    She's called Kelly Reilly. She has a classification thread (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.p...ghlight=reilly) in which several (probably biased) classifiers labelled her Lappoid/semi-Mongoloid. That's the main reason I wanted to know if other members would consider the trait epicanthal or not.

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