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Thread: The Status of the Disabled in National Socialist Germany

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    The Status of the Disabled in National Socialist Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    PS: Did you know that the NS regime was exemplary in their good treatment of the disabled wherever such seemed expedient? Lovely to see you build your own "NS" world-view around allied propaganda of Mengele administering lethal injections to every wheelchair-bound person he set eyes upon.
    There wasn't any need for "Allied propaganda", the National Socialist propaganda spoke for itself.



    "We do not stand alone": Nazi poster from 1936 with flags of other countries with compulsory sterilization legislation.



    "This person suffering from hereditary defects costs the community 60,000 Reichsmark during his lifetime. Fellow Germans, that is your money, too."

    Article I of the “Law for the Prevention of Genetically Diseased Offspring” defines who was to be examined and then sterilized: (1) Anyone who suffers from an inheritable disease may be surgically sterilized if, in the judgement [sic] of medical science, it could be expected that his decendants [sic] will suffer from serious inherited mental or physical defects. (2.) Anyone who suffers from one of the following is to be regarded as inheritably diseased within the meaning of this law:

    1. congenital feeble-mindedness
    2. schizophrenia
    3. manic-depression
    4. congenital epilepsy
    5. inheritable St. Vitus dance (Huntington's Chorea)
    6. hereditary blindness
    7. hereditary deafness
    8. serious inheritable malformations

    (3.) In addition, anyone suffering from chronic alcoholism may also be sterilized.

    Indeed, such exemplary treatment of the disabled.


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    There wasn't any need for "Allied propaganda", the National Socialist propaganda spoke for itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    Article I of the “Law for the Prevention of Genetically Diseased Offspring” defines who was to be examined and then sterilized: (1) Anyone who suffers from an inheritable disease may be surgically sterilized if, in the judgement [sic] of medical science, it could be expected that his decendants [sic] will suffer from serious inherited mental or physical defects. (2.) Anyone who suffers from one of the following is to be regarded as inheritably diseased within the meaning of this law:

    1. congenital feeble-mindedness
    2. schizophrenia
    3. manic-depression
    4. congenital epilepsy
    5. inheritable St. Vitus dance (Huntington's Chorea)
    6. hereditary blindness
    7. hereditary deafness
    8. serious inheritable malformations

    (3.) In addition, anyone suffering from chronic alcoholism may also be sterilized.
    I didn't question the maltreatment of those of defective genetic diseases which were solely a strain on the population. That is not the question of "treatment of the disabled". These eugenical measures were however not something restricted to Germany, they were a matter of the zeitgeist at the time:

    A number of American state had similar laws: Connecticut (1895), Kansas (1903), New Jersey, Ohio (both 1904), Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota (all 1905), Utah, Washington (1909).

    Fritz LENZ, in his 1931 book, Menschliche Auslese und Rassenhygiene (Eugenik) writes on page 257 that (let me translate freely):

    The marriage restrictions for reasons of racial hygiene, that currenly exist in more than 20 states, extend - aside of the ordinary mentally ill - also to idiots, epilepctics, sufferers of STDs and persons who are receptive of social benefits to the poor. In Europe, Sweden and Norway have practiced marriage restrictions since 1915 for those of weak mental health, mental illness, epileptics and sufferers of STDs, Denmark has such a law since 1921, the marriage restrictions of Mexico date back to 1926 ... A check at the doctor's (prior to marriage) is compulsory in the States Wisconsin, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Alabama, North Carolina, Louisiana. The law in Wisconsin, from 1915, prescribes a medical check for STDs, however only for males; the 1913 law of North Dakota requires to be free of idiocy, epilepsy, mental diseases, alcoholism and respiratory tuberculosis in the advanced state; also habitual criminals are barred from marriage permission; the requirement for a medical check for STDs is restricted only to men.

    Germany, at the time, had no measures of eugenics, or racial hygiene. When the NS state introduced these, they were only following suit with other countries' stipulations. As such, their treatment of the genetically defective was definitely not worse than in any other country at the time.

    Maybe I should have been clearer in saying "exemplary for its time", but I thought that this was implied in my words. The point, however, stands your test.

    In addition to being at worst on parity with other Western nations at the time - the point also stands that their treatment of those who were disabled not as a result of a genetic disease, but other causes, such as accident or a war wound, were treated with exemplary respect. You are also making the fallacy of assuming that the disabled be automatically mentally defective. If needed, I can underline this by use of sources as well - just in case you're asking.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    (3.) In addition, anyone suffering from chronic alcoholism may also be sterilized. .
    I believe this was directed towards homeless winos and the type that push carts around etc etc.

    After all, many germans enjoyed wine and beer on a daily basis.

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    I know revisionism isn't allowed on this site, so I'll be very careful here. If Germany was wantonly killing everyone who was considered an undesirable, why did they bother to sterilize them? These procedures had to cost money. Wouldn't that money have been wasted on people who were set to be killed? I believe sterilizing people with mental disorders, mental retardation, and inherited physical defects is compassionate. They should not be permitted to procreate, but should be given medical treatment to improve their quality of life. I am against abusing these people, or putting them into freak shows. These people should also be given a chance to become productive members of society, and should be protected from unreasonable discrimination.
    Being a preservationist shouldn't be about being a savage; killing and abusing the weak.

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    I have noticed on television so many cases where couples know they have a serious genetic disease, and they just blatantly go ahead and breed children, knowing they are most likely to be defective. After having one that is genetically afflicted, they go ahead and have some more, hoping they will get a normal child. They usually don't, and they end up with more than one who is afflicted. This is not fair to a child to deliberately bring it into the world knowing it will have a life of misery. Besides, what about the siblings that are apparently normal, they will be carrying the gene, and they probably will pass it on to future generations.

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    I read somewhere that German women are now the tallest in the world. Overtaking the Swedes and Dutch. Presumably this is because of a decade of eugenics a long time ago. I've lost the source though.
    Its not well known that the Soviets also practiced eugenics even upto the 1970's. Newborn babies with obvious defects being put into a bucket of water.
    I believe in soft eugenics. Like encouraging some people to have more children and others less. The first priority though is to populate the planet with White people as a whole, so right now everyone is very valuable.
    http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=5609
    This was an interesting comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by forkbeard View Post
    I read somewhere that German women are now the tallest in the world. Overtaking the Swedes and Dutch. Presumably this is because of a decade of eugenics a long time ago.
    Did it say it was presumably of that reason? I can imagine another reason - higher percentage of immigrants - which of course doesn't exclude other reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flemish View Post
    ... If Germany was wantonly killing everyone who was considered an undesirable, why did they bother to sterilize them? These procedures had to cost money. Wouldn't that money have been wasted on people who were set to be killed? ...
    Fair comment. Sterilising somebody then murdering them would seem like overkill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oski View Post
    I believe this was directed towards homeless winos and the type that push carts around etc etc.

    After all, many germans enjoyed wine and beer on a daily basis.
    Hitler really didn't like alcohol. In The Young Hitler I Knew, his best friend from young adulthood describes a plan Hitler had to replace the beer halls with coffee shops, which he considered far healthier and more beneficial. In practical reality though, they were presumably limited to dealing with the 'bottom of the barrel' types as you say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arundel View Post
    I have noticed on television so many cases where couples know they have a serious genetic disease, and they just blatantly go ahead and breed children, knowing they are most likely to be defective. After having one that is genetically afflicted, they go ahead and have some more, hoping they will get a normal child. They usually don't, and they end up with more than one who is afflicted. This is not fair to a child to deliberately bring it into the world knowing it will have a life of misery. Besides, what about the siblings that are apparently normal, they will be carrying the gene, and they probably will pass it on to future generations.
    I've even seen some in the news that purposely try to have a kid with the same disability as them, deafness for example.
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by forkbeard View Post
    I read somewhere that German women are now the tallest in the world. Overtaking the Swedes and Dutch. Presumably this is because of a decade of eugenics a long time ago. I've lost the source though.
    Its not well known that the Soviets also practiced eugenics even upto the 1970's. Newborn babies with obvious defects being put into a bucket of water.
    I believe in soft eugenics. Like encouraging some people to have more children and others less. The first priority though is to populate the planet with White people as a whole, so right now everyone is very valuable.
    http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=5609
    This was an interesting comment.

    Hard eugenics can also produce desirable results. Though there is the whole morality issue of forcing someone to procreate.


    Very few of us are ''perfect'' in the Teutonic sense. But a lot of us do have desirable traits. You might not be blond, but you nevertheless have some traits that could be exploited to create the Übermensch. Most of us just need to be ''partnered'' with the perfect opposite. The end goal should be the creation of an intelligent, good looking stabilized blend.

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