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Thread: Addendum About USA's White Population

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    Arrow Addendum About USA's White Population

    Addendum about USA's white population. The population within the NE states along the Atlantic, the kernel of the republic, was admittedly in older times of predominantly English origin, nevertheless somewhat darker, above all through more North Atlantid race, than, on average, Englishmen in the native country.

    Presumably this depended mostly on that they to a high degree (not entirely!) came from population stratums and regions in England, where there were more remnants of pre-Germanic elements. These "100 %" yankees have here in later times relatively strongly decreased through immigration, not the least to the textile industry, of different sorts between - and still much Eastern Europeans, but also through the old generations low birth rates and partial movements to the west.

    The folk in the NE states are now shorter statured and darker (also the eyes) than further west, where often the Nordid type is especially in the N prairie states (and N Pacific states) strongly predominates (naturally not the least through Scandinavians). Nearest west of Alleghany mountains, in Kentucky, Tennessee etc., the North Atlantids are through Scottish immigration strongly prominent; the stature is here higher than towards the north.

    The Southern states delicate-limbed white are now if anything lighter than the northern state’s, but along the Mexican border one meet quite a few types with Spanish-Indian elements, partially remnants since the Spanish time, but yet more arrived later from Mexico. - in passing may be mentioned that the North Atlantid element in New Zealand is very strong (mostly through Scots) which among other things is also noticed from the family names, well place names; in that case mostly on the south island, where the climate resemble Scotland’s, above all summer time.
    From: Lundman, Bertil, Jordens Folkstammar, CM-Tryck AB, Bromma, 1998
    Last edited by Glenlivet; Thursday, May 6th, 2004 at 04:08 PM.

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    Post Re: Addendum about USA's white population

    This is interesting Volks. Thank you for the translation.

    I can't speak for the American South as I haven't traveled through it since I became aware of and somewhat learned about Europid subtypes. Perhaps Nordhammer has some insights there.


    I can however, as a native New Englander, comment of what I see here in the northeastern US.

    The old stock 'Anglo-Saxon' population of New England is, in the urban areas, by and large gone. They dissapated across the continent in the great westward migrations once the lands here had been thoroughly 'agriculturalized'. Primogeniture played a large roll in this westward migration as the first born son would inherit the farm and all others were in many ways left to fend for themselves. So, if indeed the original English settlers were more fair in pigmenataion than their descendents today left in New England, some of this may be chalked up to migration westward.

    Since the colonial days, many other groups have settled in New England--particularly in the urban areas where textile mills were a booming business. There are Portuguese enclaves in southern Massachusetts, Italian communities in and around Boston and many Italians in Connecticut and Rhode Island.

    Also, the French Canadians began coming here in the mid-1800s to work as loggers in the forests and laborers in the textile mills. In my experience, most French Canadian folk here in New England are either Alpines or Atlanto-Meds and they have certainly left an imprint on the local phenotypes. The French Canadian element is particularly strong in Maine.

    I did not however, grow up in an urban setting--far from it actually! I remember as a kid taking field trips to Boston or Salem, MA and even then, I was aware of a darker populace than where I was (am still) from. In the rural areas of northern New England, lighter types are far more common and they are the last remnants of the old 'Anglo-Saxon' stock. I don't mean to say that they are of the subtype that Coon used, the Anglo-Saxon--but they approximate it in a New World way. The same is true for the rural areas of upstate New York, far from the glow of NYC, where the Dutch, English and some Germans made their homes. They are still there and more Nordid phenotypes are very common amongst them.

    We of old stock are a dying lot and it makes me sad. I feel as if I am one of the last....

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    Post Re: Addendum about USA's white population

    Quote Originally Posted by Allenson
    This is interesting Volks. Thank you for the translation.
    You're most welcome.

    As I always maintained, speak to a non North-American or European and you shall almost always find that the picture of an American man is of a tall, lanky, blondish, Nordid man. That is also because of the silver screen. As Hollywood give us another picture now some might believe all Americans are hybrids between the main geographical races.

    I do not know how true it is regarding the Nordidness of Americans. I have only seen parts of Pacific USA.

    In any case, the biological reality is the family.

    Since the colonial days, many other groups have settled in New England--particularly in the urban areas where textile mills were a booming business. There are Portuguese enclaves in southern Massachusetts, Italian communities in and around Boston and many Italians in Connecticut and Rhode Island.
    How would you describe the Irish in the state of Massachusetts? Have they mixed with Italians to a considerable extent?

    We of old stock are a dying lot and it makes me sad. I feel as if I am one of the last....
    Although more widely defined than WASP, think that everyone who is of English-Irish-Scots-Irish and/or German ancestry fit in what I would call Old American stock. I think they share more than are different. They may have felt that the new immigrants (e.g. the Irish) are very different but it is at least anthropologically an exaggeration. Scandinavians in e.g. Minnesota are of course more Nordid and insular in character.

    I am not racist but it is of course sad if a group with certain specific characters are dying out as you claim. I guess that you cannot do much else than to pair up with someone who is seemingly similar. I have a difficult to believe that they would die out, recessive characters appear in definite proportions. By fertilisation the characters of parents are united. In the offspring the characters of both parents may be separated from each other. The characters of one of the parents may completely conceal the other. Characteristics do not mix, they form new combinations or are split up into simpler components. Nevertheless, it is difficult to say how this would translate into the formation of species and races.

    All Americans I have encountered are more conservative than Europeans (I have mostly experience with Scandinavians and to a lesser degree Englishmen). They family is way more important than in Sweden where you will find much higher divorce rates. The true Nordic (of course not strictly sub racial but also regional with to some extent different morphological varieties) character (maybe Lutheranism is some modification of it) is having a lack of traditions that the masses follow. The Capitalism you have is very non-Nordic. Britain and Germany are also nowadays Capitalist. What you find in Scandinavia is conformism, making detailed accounts and being organised, diligence (but not a society of workaholics as needed for the effective American economy), a love for welfare (that is changing, not as glorious as it used to be) cleanliness. Equal rights among men and women (I am not talking about modern feminism) is very Nordic. To have a royal family that do not deal much with politics is also quite Nordic. Maybe imagination is lacked among many in the Nordic region.

    Psychological traits among populations havea greater distribution than varieties of sub races. Furthermore, such traits can be shared by other populations with a similar historical process. I also wonder if not many characters cannot be acquired. Adopted South Korean children that came to Sweden during the early 80's can behave in the same stereotypically Nordic way as the upper middle class Swedish families that took care of them.

    I do respect the idea that America might not be what it used to be etc., and one should be careful when deciding who and what represent USA.

    Maybe the freedom loving and exploitation power of Americans is Nordic in character (again, I am not saying with certain convergent features and pigmentation you have a physical type, it can also be because of culture, historical events and upbreeding and so forth). I am not speaking about American foreign policies, that would definitely contradict the statements.

    Europeans are still more insular while USA took over all the new markets. Europe is now cointained to Europe. The reality is more complex than just being about race.

    Do you think that one can have globalism and free trade but at the same time preserve cultural and regional differences?
    Last edited by Glenlivet; Thursday, May 6th, 2004 at 06:03 PM.

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    Post Re: Addendum about USA's white population

    I'm not sure how much the Irish have mixed with the Italians in Boston and surrounds. I'm sure that there has been some--and likely of more recent generations as both groups tended to stay insular for a while and now that they are more 'main-stream', the insularity has worn off.

    My maternal grandmother's family is largely Irish--but not of the later, potato famine type. They came to Canada first in the early 1800s and then down to Boston. They married into other Irish families upon reaching Boston--Catholics of course ( )--but my grandmother married into an old WASPy family (my grandfather's) instead and became somewhat of a 'black sheep' in her family, LOL. "She married a Protestant?!" her family probably said.


    I agree that of whatever ethnic background, the Old Stock Americans indeed do share more in common than they differ. Those barriers have largely gone away at this point in history.

    When I speak of the dying lot of Old Stock Americans--I don't fully mean in a racial sense (although somewhat) but more in a cultural one and in world view. The self-sufficient, thrifty, yeoman-Yankee farmer with solid familial values, an aversion to excess, common sense, inward looking, contemplative, hard working, not expecting governmental hand-outs, etc., etc, is what I am speaking of.

    You wrote:

    "Do you think that one can have globalism and free trade but at the same time preserve cultural and regional differences?"

    No, not in the nearly unchecked manner we see these things today....

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    Post Re: Addendum about USA's white population

    If "North Atlantid" is Coon's and McCullogh's "Celtic Nordid," then I can agree with what is written in the article for Kentucky, Volks. However, if "North Atlantid" is McCullogh's definition -- dark brown or blackish hair with light eyes and pale skin and "exotic" appearance -- then I have to disagree. The latter is not a common phenotype here. On average and judging from the offal on the barbershop floor, adult mens' hair color is medium to light brown. Light mixed eyes may be the most common, but pure light eyes are about even with mixed. All small children are blonde. I can't think of anyone who is swarthy in the Paleo-Atlantid sense. Pure Skando-Nordid or Hallstatt is as rare as pure UP in a generally robust population.

    It's possible red hair is getting rarer here now that families are getting smaller. For instance, I know two redheads who are past childbearing age and are unmarried and childless. I first learned that red hair was the rarest color when I was about 10 years old and was surprised by the fact since there were plenty of redheads in the neighborhood and in my family. Obviously, the redheaded Brunn presence here would correlate with the Scotch-Irish dominance.
    Last edited by Louky; Friday, May 7th, 2004 at 05:25 PM.
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    Post Re: Addendum about USA's white population

    Interstingly enough and perhaps somewhat surprising, is the lack of Coon's Keltic Nordic here in New England--especially given the history and settlement of the region. Occasionally I see folks of this type but it is not common. And, nor are Atlanto-Meds & Paleo-Meds common. Here and there but not common.

    I don't want to give the impression that where I live is predominantly Anglo-Saxon subracially as the type is defined by Coon. It isn't--at least in the English sense of the type. There are some for sure that look like English Anglo-Saxons but the bulk of the local populace have a more New World look to them--but still might be considered robust Noridics or Nordic + some 'UP' type.


    This fellow is a good example of what I mean:

    http://www.eganglass.com/static/egan...outmichael.php

    Here is a local Borreby/Alpine type:

    http://www.woodcarve.net/instructor_bkgnd.html

    This guy is an old Vermonter and might be thought of as Keltic:

    http://www.darrell-martin.net/genealogy/p22.htm

    Here are two more-- The man has what sounds like a French name to me and might be of French-Canadian roots but still doesn't look 'out of place' around here. He might be an Atlanto-Medish type. The woman is also a Vermonter and looks very Faelid to me:

    http://www.digitalbridges20.net/db03/team.htm

    Justin Morrill who was born about 15 miles from where I live-- Kelto-Saxon perhaps?

    http://www.virtualvermont.com/history/jmorrill.html

    This comedian is a Vermonter and very Nordid:

    http://www.thelogger.com/

    And, no list of Vermonters is complete without native born, 30th President of the US, Calvin Coolidge:

    http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...dge%22&spell=1

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    Post Re: Addendum about USA's white population

    I think the Atlantic type with the black hair and light eyes is more common in the lowland South, and that the Keltic Nordic is the more predominant type in the upland South... with Brunn being very common as well. I have to say that Anglo-Saxons I do consider to be more numerous from my forays in small-town New England... and also in the Upper Great Plains and Great Northwest (not to mention the Midwest/Great Lakes). Popular views in my area tend to see it as 'Celtic South' and 'Saxon North'.

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    Post Re: Addendum about USA's white population

    Quote Originally Posted by Allenson
    Interstingly enough and perhaps somewhat surprising, is the lack of Coon's Keltic Nordic here in New England--[/url]
    They moved here and became hillbillies
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    Post Re: Addendum about USA's white population

    Growing up in California, I couldn't help but notice that the kids on American Bandstand didn't look like the kids I knew. They mostly had dark hair and eyes and all looked sort of "Italian" in my mind. People from NYC and especially New Jersey mostly fit this pattern also. As you move west in the USA, the hair and eyes get lighter and the people start looking more UP, especially in the "farmland" and in the small towns there. Nordics tend to turn up also and seemed to get more common as one moved into the far West. So, the kids I grew up with were mostly an Anglo-Saxon, Keltic Nordic, UP mix. Of course, Jews began pushing their way into Beverly Hills in the 1050s, but that was really a ghetto of rich people, mostly making money by fleecing others in the "movie business".

    I have been told by Southerners that the dark-type, dark eyes and hair with a slender frame, is due to admixture with the Indians there. The late George Wallace and Elvis Prestley were of this type. They consider themselves as White and so are considered so by others.

    Is there a Slavic undercurrent in Western Canada (Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba) ? It seems to me that there is. This type seems to be predominately blond but with facial features not seen as often in the US. Also, it seems that there are more people in Canada whose origin was in Scotland. They sometimes still retain an accent and look UP.

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    Thumbs Up Re: Addendum about USA's white population

    Quote Originally Posted by Allenson
    This is interesting Volks. Thank you for the translation.

    I can't speak for the American South as I haven't traveled through it since I became aware of and somewhat learned about Europid subtypes. Perhaps Nordhammer has some insights there.


    I can however, as a native New Englander, comment of what I see here in the northeastern US.

    The old stock 'Anglo-Saxon' population of New England is, in the urban areas, by and large gone. They dissapated across the continent in the great westward migrations once the lands here had been thoroughly 'agriculturalized'. Primogeniture played a large roll in this westward migration as the first born son would inherit the farm and all others were in many ways left to fend for themselves. So, if indeed the original English settlers were more fair in pigmenataion than their descendents today left in New England, some of this may be chalked up to migration westward.

    Since the colonial days, many other groups have settled in New England--particularly in the urban areas where textile mills were a booming business. There are Portuguese enclaves in southern Massachusetts, Italian communities in and around Boston and many Italians in Connecticut and Rhode Island.

    Also, the French Canadians began coming here in the mid-1800s to work as loggers in the forests and laborers in the textile mills. In my experience, most French Canadian folk here in New England are either Alpines or Atlanto-Meds and they have certainly left an imprint on the local phenotypes. The French Canadian element is particularly strong in Maine.

    I did not however, grow up in an urban setting--far from it actually! I remember as a kid taking field trips to Boston or Salem, MA and even then, I was aware of a darker populace than where I was (am still) from. In the rural areas of northern New England, lighter types are far more common and they are the last remnants of the old 'Anglo-Saxon' stock. I don't mean to say that they are of the subtype that Coon used, the Anglo-Saxon--but they approximate it in a New World way. The same is true for the rural areas of upstate New York, far from the glow of NYC, where the Dutch, English and some Germans made their homes. They are still there and more Nordid phenotypes are very common amongst them.

    We of old stock are a dying lot and it makes me sad. I feel as if I am one of the last....
    Well I am worried about the status of New England as well. I was born in Boston but lived in New Hampshire most of my life. The last town in New Hampshire I lived in was Hudson. It was primarily French-Canadian and Irish. A lot of Euro-Mutts like myself coming from Massachusettes because this is Southern New Hampshire I am talking about. I fear the change in New England and many New Englanders do not realize or know the being of another race. When I first moved outta NE it was the first time I lived with minorities. I saw racially-mixed people for the first time as well, which I thought was the strangest thing in the world.( I was about 15-16)Most of the scenery of the family of farmers that dalonlord is talking about would fit better in Maine's society in my mind. It is weird though everytime I go back to New England I see more inferiors everytime and I go about every 2 years maybe a little less and I am getting sad to see what is happening to it. In my opinion New Englander's should start thinking and brainstorm what they could possibly have coming to them. I will probably move back when I am well.

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