View Poll Results: What should the German(ic) diaspora do about their identity?

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  • Preserve the old Germa(ic)n identity of the country or region they came from.

    14 50.00%
  • Forge a new kind of German(ic) identity.

    7 25.00%
  • I've another view (explain?)

    7 25.00%
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Thread: German(ic) Diaspora Dilemma: Preservation of Old Identities or Forging New Ones?

  1. #1
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    German(ic) Diaspora Dilemma: Preservation of Old Identities or Forging New Ones?

    In the German(ic) diaspora around the globe, we've different situations.

    Some ethnic German(ic)s clung to their old traditions, and speak old dialects which existed at the time of their migration, but which meanwhile evolved in Germany.

    Example here: Preserving Endangered Species of the German Language

    Other ethnic Germans started to detach themselves from the original culture of the regions they came from, and created a new identity. An own national costume, or an own dialect, or both.

    Example here: Man Spricht Texas-Deutsch

    Which is better in your view? Should they stay true to the heritage and traditions of their motherland, or use them to create a new identity? When we say Germans, many groups could be included in the definition, for example Bavarians or Swabians. Their cultures differ. Should the German diaspora become a culture of its own, a distinct group, than just imitating what they see in Germany?

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  3. #2
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    It doesn't matter to me what dialect and folk costumes they have, as long as they don't stop speaking High German. Any member of the German nation should be able to communicate in this language. Upon reentering Germany, a member of the diaspora must prove he is able to speak standard German, and if not, made to undergo classes to learn this language.

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    Either, they should just let nature take its course. Not all communities are alike. what's important is to maintain a group identity and not to integrate in a different culture and mindset. This means first and foremost not to give up the German language. I agree with Bärin, German competence is a must.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleyer View Post
    Either, they should just let nature take its course. Not all communities are alike. what's important is to maintain a group identity and not to integrate in a different culture and mindset. This means first and foremost not to give up the German language. I agree with Bärin, German competence is a must.
    Easier said than done! German immigration to Brazil stopped sixty years ago. And although assimilation wasn't a natural process, it's a consummated fact. The nazi adventure in Europe greatly contributed to that. During the late thirties, early forties, the nationalization campaign was conducted by the army: germans schools were nationalized or simply closed - it was better to raise illiterates than traitors, said a general back then. And although interracial (white-nonwhite) couples weren't common, ethnic identity gradually disappeared, at least in the great cities. Today it's hard to find a german-brazilian couple, although lots of people I know consider themselves euro-brazilians, descending from multiple european stocks. I know most Skadi members don't accept this concept, but that's the reality overseas, at least in Brazil.
    Del espíritu del cristianismo nace, efectivamente, el sentimiento de igualdad, viciado por cierto ascético menosprecio de la selección espiritual y la cultura. De la herencia de las civilizaciones clásicas, nacen el sentido del orden, de la jerarquía y el respeto religioso del genio, viciados por cierto aristocrático desdén de los humildes y los débiles. El porvenir sintetizará ambas sugestiones del pasado, en una fórmula inmortal. [Rodó]

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    As we've more members from the Germanic diaspora now, I'd like to ask this question again.

    My personal answer is a little bit of both. This is what my regional ancestry is made of: for example, the Saxon dialect comes from the regions Germans have immigrated from, but we've also incorporated new words in it. Our costume is unique and specific to our region. However I've noticed some enclaves simulate a Bavarian costume.

    What would you say about your region? What traditions are kept alive and what exactly is specific to your region?

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    Any of the two although the first option is a must - even if they forge a new identity, they still need a basis structure to start with. I've seen some communities that like to believe they keep the culture alive, but the racial aspect is gone. So basically you have racially mixed people dressing up in German national costume. There's a racial and ethnic aspect that needs to be preserved, the cultural and spiritual aspect is a consequence of that identity.
    "Tradition doesn't mean holding on to the ashes, it means passing the torch."
    - Thomas Morus (1478-1535)

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    Where is the contradiction? Cultures change with time and isolation, shaped by their past.

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    Germanic enclaves and diaspora face extinction by integration and assimilation into the host country by time and by generations.

    They should come back to our German countries and support us here. No reason to fight a lost battle. The important battle to win is here in our home lands!
    Loyal to my hate

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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    As we've more members from the Germanic diaspora now, I'd like to ask this question again.

    What would you say about your region? What traditions are kept alive and what exactly is specific to your region?
    I would guess that for my situation, the identity conjured up by the nation being inhabited, is to be split almost completely in two.

    1)Oxapampa (Jungle)
    As many of the German community in Peru wear the traditional Bavarian dress for special occasions and even host their own version of Oktoberfest, there is a strong sense of culctural identity among them, more and more becoming separate from what we know as modern Germany. However this germanic community doesn't speak High German, but more of a lower german, pre-world war or even pre-unification german. Anthropomorphicly speaking, these Germans seem to be of the southwestern celtic off-shoot with a lot of Saxon influences. You'll run into a lot of bright, curly haired, red heads and black hair, blue eyed brachycephalic people of medium stature living in Old German houses spread out across the jungle, eating mangos and drinking deutsche bier.
    2)Arequipa/Lima (coastal)
    These are a parallel in comparison to the Oxapampan German, similar in many ways but their sense of cultural pride and backbone come from a very different background. The coastal germanic diaspora is a very "distinguished" one at that, maybe more so than any other european ethnic group living in Peru. They don't participate in politics nor do they dabble in the higher social or lower tiers of society. They tend to be introverted and and stark, very unlike the Oxapampan. Most families take good care of their children and have them dress in the /best/ outfits (and when I say best, I mean everything tailor made and with the best materials). They distinguish themselves from the oligarchs and the surging burguoise, not throught lineage or success, but of a racial root. The Alpine/Nordic phenotype is very intense in this group. Such that when they mix with other ethnc groups, the result is a child with more of a phenotypical tendency towards the german parent (FE: a close friend of mine is a German-Amerindian hybrid; he has green-yellow eyes, tan skin and flowing black hair, stands at 6'2, and has very high cheekbones). Most of the families belonging to this group have money but tend not to flaunt it. They speak German but pronounce it with a very hard "r". Most of the children of these families go to Deutsch skuls in the area (an example is the Alexander Von Humbolt school).

    All in all I think these two identities should be related not to modern day Germany but to the Greater Germania. Would they meet with modern Germans, they would probably have a very awkward meeting.

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  18. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmetterling View Post
    Any of the two although the first option is a must - even if they forge a new identity, they still need a basis structure to start with. I've seen some communities that like to believe they keep the culture alive, but the racial aspect is gone. So basically you have racially mixed people dressing up in German national costume. There's a racial and ethnic aspect that needs to be preserved, the cultural and spiritual aspect is a consequence of that identity.
    This is ideally the question to be asked among the enclaves and diaspora, but nobody wants to answer it because after some time the next pure german will eventually be a cousin of yours. Excuse me but I wouldn't have children with my cousin to preserve my race, in any case, inbreeding would simply lead to the inminent destruction of my genes and probably leaving my offspring infertile or retarded. Of course I completely agree with you regarding absolute fact that there is a spiritual and cultural identity that is forged upon birth that is the basis for the child's pride and identity, which leads to a much healthier and stronger psychological base in comparison to those who massively diversify their offspring (further than per se European). However, there is no doubt in my mind that in most cases that pride and identity is overrided by necessity. The unfortunate product of this mixture is someone who will never fully identify with either identity, which leads to collective stagnation in communities and even entire countries (which is a massive problem in south america, as the Amerindians are mostly mixed with white, and "feel" victimized by the rape and pillage of their ancestors by the spanish and they are the product of that rape).
    This is not to say that the other races shouldn't have their own sovereignity, I believe that everyone should be equal, yet have pride in their own heritage and foundations and most importantly do their part to help those of other races flourish and find pride in their own heritage.

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