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Thread: My View on the Volksdeutsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    The only other answer would be to totally forbid immigration by non-Germanics, and then Germany would lose the respect of almost the entire rest of the world.
    The world applauds us now for killing ourselves peacefully, or scolds us for not doing it fast enough, but the only nations they truly respect are the ones capable of destroying them, such as the US, Russia and China, despite their conduct. Our demographic policy is our most vital interest and foreign attempts to interfere with this are essentially an act of aggression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    My views on the US are liberal but probably not as liberal as they seem. For instance I'm staunchly against all illegal immigration, but I do respect people of all kinds coming here and being here legally, as long as they put America first. Sometimes my views against blacks, Hispanics, and Jews are negative, but that's only when I feel like they are working against what's good for my country. When those non-Germanics work hard, fly right, and put America first I'm not going to condemn them.
    This is basically within the rights-based political tradition of the US, a horribly flawed tradition that has enabled the decline of Germanic Americans in the first place. In most of Europe, it is an alien concept that has nothing to do with our desire to build ethnic nations, folkish societies, tribal communities.

    The worth of outsiders does not depend on their economic performance or criminal conduct, it is a question of whether they can fit in and help improve us on an individual as well as collective level and I am of the opinion that most non-Germanics can not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    The worth of outsiders does not depend on their economic performance or criminal conduct, it is a question of whether they can fit in and help improve us on an individual as well as collective level and I am of the opinion that most non-Germanics can not.
    For Germany I agree entirely. I just like the fact that the world no longer hates Germany. I saw how the world came to Germany in 2006 and how Germany laid rest to ghosts that had been haunting them for the prior sixty years. This would never have happened had Germany stuck to any kind of ethnic or race-based agenda. Germany had to be more tolerant of outsiders than other countries in order to rid itself of its terrible reputation.

    Of course, I'm on the outside looking in. I wasn't born in Germany, I didn't grow up in Germany, and I don't wake up each morning and go to sleep each night in Germany. I can never say that I fully understand the plight of the Germans or know what's best for them. In fact many of my feelings of wanting Germany to be accepted by the mulit-cultural world is no doubt due to me being born and raised in a multi-cultural country. I suppose I'm somewhat trapped between being a German and an American. I guess when you get right down to it I'm neither.

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    Senior Member stormlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    For Germany I agree entirely. I just like the fact that the world no longer hates Germany. I saw how the world came to Germany in 2006 and how Germany laid rest to ghosts that had been haunting them for the prior sixty years. This would never have happened had Germany stuck to any kind of ethnic or race-based agenda.
    From your other comments you suggested that you disagreed with those saying that morality is relative and yet you're doing it here, if wrong is wrong, then why does the holocaust mean that Germany has to commit racial suicide while Israel can run what is in effect a highly militarised, ironically rather fascist, ethnostate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rivalin View Post
    From your other comments you suggested that you disagreed with those saying that morality is relative and yet you're doing it here, if wrong is wrong, then why does the holocaust mean that Germany has to commit racial suicide while Israel can run what is in effect a highly militarised, ironically rather fascist, ethnostate?
    There's two ways one can go. One can be totally pro-German(ic) and decide that whatever is good for the folk is acceptable. Or one can try to be pro-German(ic) within the context of the world at large, preferring that all peoples follow the same moral compass. I have respect for both ways of thinking. Personally I feel torn between the two.

    As far as Germany's past sixty years, I was only judging their methods by the results, which is having the respect of the world. I can't help but feel good about that, but I have acknowledged that what might be good for this German-American's heart may not have been in the best interest of the common German.

    And I have no respect for Israel. If a bunch of Jews had gone in by themselves and taken Palestine, I would have respect for them. Instead they played on the sympathy of the world powers and had it given to them. They are the world's greatest con-artists, as they continue to convince the world at large that their religious fanatacism is rational and that they deserve to be defended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    but I have acknowledged that what might be good for this German-American's heart may not have been in the best interest of the common German.
    Not quite. What we have to keep in mind is the totality of all Germans that currently exist, have been in existence, and ever will be. The "common German" may very well have interests that radically diverge, such as selling out our biological base for petty wealth. It is easy to view the best of us as yet another resource that is squandered for short-sighted and unsustainable gain, given the fact that high-performing individuals are usually "rewarded" with childlessness and the resulting destruction of their blood line. It is a form of predatory exploitation the common German profits from.

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    Grimm, the people who resent immigrants don't do it because they don't want to integrate. They do it because they're foreign period. Even if a German started speaking Russian fluently and adopted Russian culture, there still would be feelings of animosity towards him. As a matter of fact, sometimes flying the flag and singing the anthem when you're an immigrant is perceived as offensive by the natives.

    My family immigrated to the USA when I was a child. They integrated quite quickly. My sister, particularly. She considers herself a proud American and wouldn't for a second think she is German. But one doesn't just become American overnight. To some Americans, my family are still German immigrants and nothing more. I moved to Germany. My parents and sister were left behind, because they prefer the USA. But I don't think they will ever be true Americans. There is that saying, a pig in a stable doesn't turn into a horse.

    In the USA, however, it's much easier to integrate as you say, and to become American, because most people, like you, perceive America to be a melting pot, and everyone who comes off a ship or plane can be a true American. In Europe it's a whole different story. Here, for centuries, there was a clear outline between the native and the foreign. Jews who had been in Germany for centuries and spoke German as a native language were still considered Jews. Only minimal Slavic influence was accepted and that didn't mean openness to more Slavic marriages. That changed after WWII when the USA imposed its multicultural model on Germany.
    "Tradition doesn't mean holding on to the ashes, it means passing the torch."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachthimmel View Post
    Grimm, the people who resent immigrants don't do it because they don't want to integrate. They do it because they're foreign period. Even if a German started speaking Russian fluently and adopted Russian culture, there still would be feelings of animosity towards him. As a matter of fact, sometimes flying the flag and singing the anthem when you're an immigrant is perceived as offensive by the natives.

    My family immigrated to the USA when I was a child. They integrated quite quickly. My sister, particularly. She considers herself a proud American and wouldn't for a second think she is German. But one doesn't just become American overnight. To some Americans, my family are still German immigrants and nothing more. I moved to Germany. My parents and sister were left behind, because they prefer the USA. But I don't think they will ever be true Americans. There is that saying, a pig in a stable doesn't turn into a horse.

    In the USA, however, it's much easier to integrate as you say, and to become American, because most people, like you, perceive America to be a melting pot, and everyone who comes off a ship or plane can be a true American. In Europe it's a whole different story. Here, for centuries, there was a clear outline between the native and the foreign. Jews who had been in Germany for centuries and spoke German as a native language were still considered Jews. Only minimal Slavic influence was accepted and that didn't mean openness to more Slavic marriages. That changed after WWII when the USA imposed its multicultural model on Germany.

    The US was not "multicultural" in the 1950's, that wasn't well into the 1970's with the Jim Crow law, Revision of the Immigration system (1965; thanks JFK) and the Civil Rights' act.

    And we didn't impose a "multicultural model" on anyone. The right of return was the idea of German Politicians, not during the occupation but actually going back to the National Socialists in the 1940's, when they handed out citizenship to the VD/ASL of Eastern Europe.
    Now some of us might be responsible for changing social views in post-war Germany, but I imagine the Nazi losing was a far bigger impact in that regard than the Germans getting some foreign-dubbed Hollywood movies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    (The US and Canada are obvious exceptions due the nature of their development. Australia and New Zealand may be excepted as well, although possibly not because their history is decidedly British until relatively recently.)
    just to expand on what Brynhild posted one German community in Australia(most of my family are still there) that has assimilated and held onto its roots very well(its getting slowly eroded)

    just for your interest

    http://www.adhills.com.au/tourism/towns/hahndorf/
    Tasmanian twice the heads!!.......twice the intelligence!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachthimmel View Post
    Grimm, the people who resent immigrants don't do it because they don't want to integrate. They do it because they're foreign period. Even if a German started speaking Russian fluently and adopted Russian culture, there still would be feelings of animosity towards him. As a matter of fact, sometimes flying the flag and singing the anthem when you're an immigrant is perceived as offensive by the natives.

    My family immigrated to the USA when I was a child. They integrated quite quickly. My sister, particularly. She considers herself a proud American and wouldn't for a second think she is German. But one doesn't just become American overnight. To some Americans, my family are still German immigrants and nothing more. I moved to Germany. My parents and sister were left behind, because they prefer the USA. But I don't think they will ever be true Americans. There is that saying, a pig in a stable doesn't turn into a horse.

    In the USA, however, it's much easier to integrate as you say, and to become American, because most people, like you, perceive America to be a melting pot, and everyone who comes off a ship or plane can be a true American. In Europe it's a whole different story. Here, for centuries, there was a clear outline between the native and the foreign. Jews who had been in Germany for centuries and spoke German as a native language were still considered Jews. Only minimal Slavic influence was accepted and that didn't mean openness to more Slavic marriages. That changed after WWII when the USA imposed its multicultural model on Germany.
    I don't want Germany to halt immigration and be a nation entirely of 100% German-blooded Germans, because that would cut them off from the world. On the other hand I wouldn't like to see a Germany with pockets of immigrants here and there, who aren't German in the least. My solution (which would be impossible to set out to create) would be a Germany with small amounts of immigrants who are eager to become Germans and are eager to intermarry with Germans and generate half-German offspring. Those offspring would want to marry full-Germans and generate 3/4 German offspring. I know this is very backwards compared to the thinking of most members, who want to keep the German genepool as uncontaminated as possible. Indeed it could get out of hand and to the point where all Germans had varying degrees of foreign blood. Obviously this would not be a desired result.

    It is indeed a flawed theory. I think my views come somewhat from wanting a Germany that is entirely German, but not so. I couldn't imagine a Germany in this day and age made up entirely of fullblooded Germans, but I want everyone in Germany to at least be somewhat German. For instance I once read that Bruce Willis was the son of an American serviceman stationed in Germany and that he grew up there. That didn't make me feel any connection to him at all. Then I read another article which clarified that Bruce Willis' mother was a German woman. That made me feel a connection to Bruce Willis. He is half-German, which is better than not German at all.

    As far as the USA and your experiences, I understand that there are people here who will never accept you and your family. I'm against not being accepting of immigrants who want to really be American. My father's parents came here from Germany in the mid-20's, and what they wanted from the moment they stepped foot in the USA was to be Americans. They studied hard and learned English very quickly. They kept some small aspects of their life German. They still ate wurst and Grandpa officiated fussball, but they also ate pizza and watched baseball. Some little customs were held onto, but not the language and not the idea of being German. They (and most importantly for them, their kids) were to be Americans.

    They faced their share of prejudice during WWII, but they didn't resent the Americans for it. (In fact someone with a grudge reported them to the FBI accusing them of being Nazi-sympathizers. Federal agents showed up unannounced one day and started asking them questions and looking around the house. My grandfather had said you could see the surprise on one of the agents' faces when he looked through his bookshelf and found books by Thomas Mann. The interview didn't last very long after that, and my grandparents' names were entirely cleared.) Until they died they tried to be the best Americans they could.

    I'm sorry that they did not pass on much of their culture to my father, but I'm not sorry that they strove wholeheartedly to become Americans. Anytime I see someone doing that, no matter what race or religion, I'm touched. And that some do it in the face of prejudice makes it that much more endearing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    I don't want Germany to halt immigration and be a nation entirely of 100% German-blooded Germans, because that would cut them off from the world. On the other hand I wouldn't like to see a Germany with pockets of immigrants here and there, who aren't German in the least. My solution (which would be impossible to set out to create) would be a Germany with small amounts of immigrants who are eager to become Germans and are eager to intermarry with Germans and generate half-German offspring. Those offspring would want to marry full-Germans and generate 3/4 German offspring.
    This is also what I am thinking of, but I would restrict this to Germanics and the goal for them is not to become generic Germans, but truly enmeshed in their communities. It is actually quite simple: You either fit in or you do not, your presence either improves your community, also in a genetic sense, or it does not.

    I notice this curious (and horrifying) idea that we have an obligation to continue the degermanisation of Germany, either for moral reasons or because it happened in the past. There is no such obligation. To the contrary, we need to reverse direction. Assimilation and integration of non-Germanics should take place in their own territories accompanied by continuous immigration, beginning in the Germanic core and permeating through the surrounding layers.

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