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Thread: My View on the Volksdeutsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    Maybe this is true. Maybe your situation is different from that of other Volkdeutsche of which I've read. But what would the rank and file of this forum think about the opposite happening in Germany? A foreign group living in Germany, not wanting to learn German, not wanting to become Germans, wanting to keep all of their customs and adopt none of the Germans - what would Germans think of that?
    I think Sissi is right, it's better to keep the ancestral customs than integrate. Because if you integrate you won't be able to go back to your ancestral country as easily.

    A couple of Germans have told me that the current descendants of Polish immigrants from the 1800's have been accepted as Germans, mainly due to the fact that most have had the Polish bred out of them by mating with Germans and because they've given up all of their Polish customs. You on the otherhand have made it clear that you would never mate with a Romanian or give up your German customs. That's fine. But if it was and is ok for the Germans to resent the Jews and Roma and Sorbs and any other foreign element for being that way, then it would be ok for Romanians to resent you for being that way.
    No, I won't give up my customs. Why should I? I'm not Romanian so it's not my duty to carry Romanian customs. Yes, you're right it would be ok for Romanians to resent me for being that way. But I don't care what others think of me. I care about my ethnic duty. Because this is where I was born, where I live, and where my people created a culture, which is our unique culture, the Transylvanian Saxon culture. We speak German of course, but we are a branch of our own, like the Bavarians, Swabians, Saxons and all other are. But the Romanians don't resent me. The situation of Transylvanian Saxons is very complicated. When our ancestors were invited here, this wasn't Romania. This land was administrated by the Hungarians. It was "Hungary" then. In it, the Transylvanian Saxons founded big cities like Hermannstadt, Kronstadt and other. So the cities in which a majority of Romanians live today, are "our" creation. Romanians took control of Transylvania after the wars and now it's part of Romania. But it wasn't always so. So the result is three major ethnicities living in the same land.

    For your information, I pondered moving to Germany. Not because I'm resented by Romanians, but because there are few ethnic Germans left here. Many went to Germany and remained there. And it's not quite easy to find partners of my age of German ethnicity, I don't have lots of choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    I'm not saying I want the Native American to succeed. I'm saying I would not resent him for wanting his land back. It's like sport - I want to beat you but I'm not going to be outraged that you want to beat me.
    I have a different view from yours. I resent anyone who tries to hurt my country or my people, even if my people "deserve" it from a philosophical or moral point of view. Philosophy and morals aren't ends in themselves from my point of view. If they don't benefit my people in some way, then they're not useful to me.

    Mexicans here should live our way. They should sing our national anthem. They should fly our flag. If one of them falls in love with one of us and vice versa, then who am I to say they shouldn't procreate? If it's infatuation due to racial differences, then it's unfortunate. But if it's true love, then it's true love. C'est la vie.
    I beg to differ on this. I'm a nationalist and ethnocentrist, so I'm against procreation with foreigners. I want my nation to preserve its heritage, including ethnic and racial.

    I feel that an immigrant has a responsibility to become a part of his/her new country. If not, then they shouldn't complain if the citizens resent them.
    I don't expect the host countries should have any responsibility or positive feelings towards the ethnic Germans. It's us, Germans, who should look after our own interests, including the interests of our brothers and sisters abroad. We won't be getting anywhere if we expect others to do things for us. If we wallow in lessons of morality and theoretical concepts, we will do harm to our people.

    These lands have become Slavic. I won't say it's wrong if Germany wants to go and get them back. Every group has the right to self-determination. I just think that now that it's Russian, it's Russian, and if I were a Rusky I'd resent Germans living there and speaking German and not having any loyalty to my country.
    Like I said, I don't care whether they resent Germans or not. I don't care if it's hypocritical. My care is about my own kind, the German folk. It's what matters to me from a pragmatic point of view.

    I don't feel as strongly about separatism as you. I think it's interesting that occasionally you'll stumble across a Canaris or a Potente or a Borowski, and he or she is evidence of a longdead foreign ancestor whose legacy has become entirely German.
    Yes, that might be. We aren't pure, no one is that naive. But that doesn't mean we should assimilate even more foreigners, just because it happened in our past. We should learn from mistakes, not repeat them.
    THINK! It's not illegal yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    In it, the Transylvanian Saxons founded big cities like Hermannstadt, Kronstadt and other. So the cities in which a majority of Romanians live today, are "our" creation. Romanians took control of Transylvania after the wars and now it's part of Romania. But it wasn't always so. So the result is three major ethnicities living in the same land.
    .
    I see that point, and Sissi made a similar point regarding ever changing demographics. I guess I feel that whatever country owns the land now, is the boss. An Alsace-Loraine would be an exception, because it borders present-day Germany and is comprised almost entirely (I think) of ethnic Germans

    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    No, I won't give up my customs. Why should I? I'm not Romanian so it's not my duty to carry Romanian customs. Yes, you're right it would be ok for Romanians to resent me for being that way. But I don't care what others think of me. I care about my ethnic duty..
    I suppose I don't really feel negatively about German enclaves at all, not when the ethnic Germans are openminded enough to see both sides of it, as you obviously are. I was looking for some validation that ethnic Germans (Volkdeutsche or not) can understand and accept that some native (for lack of a better word) populations may be resentful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    I suppose I don't really feel negatively about German enclaves at all, not when the ethnic Germans are openminded enough to see both sides of it, as you obviously are. I was looking for some validation that ethnic Germans (Volkdeutsche or not) can understand and accept that some native (for lack of a better word) populations may be resentful.
    It's certainly understandable, but why should it be acceptable? Why should ethnic Germans subscribe to the same set of morals as foreigners? Why should they let someone else dictate what they should do? Morality is relative and you'll always be able to find a justification for something because you'll always find a culture that accepts it. Some cultures accept sex between children and adults, incest, and so forth. To them it's moral. The question is, why should we subscribe to anything else but our own ideology? Ethnic Germans who stay German are preservationists. According to preservationist ideology, one must perpetuate the race, ethnicity and culture of the ancestors. That's what they're doing. No matter where. No matter the means. So from their angle, it's fair.

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    I mainly posted this thread to see if ethnic Germans would see both sides of the equation, and Sissi and Siebenbürgerin do. I really can't argue with either of you. I was figuring I would run into some ethnic Germans who would try to explain why Germans have the right to occupy foreign lands whereas non-Germans do not. I thought there would be some kind of moral argument, but I was wrong. You are both committed German preservationists, and you make no excuses nor do you hide behind some skewered vision of right and wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sissi View Post
    I don't expect the host countries should have any responsibility or positive feelings towards the ethnic Germans. It's us, Germans, who should look after our own interests, including the interests of our brothers and sisters abroad..
    Would Germany be quick to come to the aid of ethnic Germans in foreign countries? In a perfect world they would, but currently I'm not so sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todesengel View Post
    It's certainly understandable, but why should it be acceptable?
    "Accept" was a poor choice of words. I didn't mean accepting any abuse. I just meant accepting that Romanians or Russians or whathaveyou may feel the same towards you as Germans feel towards the foreign populations inside Germany.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sissi View Post
    I beg to differ on this. I'm a nationalist and ethnocentrist, so I'm against procreation with foreigners. I want my nation to preserve its heritage, including ethnic and racial.
    My country is a melting pot, as they say. I don't have too much concern over who mixes. Anyone can be an American. To be a good American I really have to accept everyone, as long as they respect this country.

    And I think a tiny amount of foreign (mainly Germanic) genes mixing into the ethnic German population of Germany isn't a bad thing. Foreigners have been bred into every ethnicity all over the world, and I think it's a natural occurence. But alas there is no way to keep tabs on it and control it, so in the grand scheme of things not allowing it to happen may be the only way to make sure it doesn't go too far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    I mainly posted this thread to see if ethnic Germans would see both sides of the equation, and Sissi and Siebenbürgerin do. I really can't argue with either of you. I was figuring I would run into some ethnic Germans who would try to explain why Germans have the right to occupy foreign lands whereas non-Germans do not. I thought there would be some kind of moral argument, but I was wrong. You are both committed German preservationists, and you make no excuses nor do you hide behind some skewered vision of right and wrong.
    I'd be naive to think that if I suddenly speak against ethnic Germans, Muslim countries would start speaking against Muslim immigration, or if my people don't immigrate to another country their people won't either. The world doesn't work according to the principle "treat others as you want to be treated". Our history is full of wars, occupation and attempts of occupation and the important thing for me is the survival and preservation of my people. We can look at the animal kingdom. For a species to live, another has to die or be pushed out of a territory. It's not "right", of course, but it's how nature is like. It doesn't mean I want the foreigners to disappear, to an extent I care about their fate too, the European ones I mean. I don't want Romania or Russia to be invaded by non-European immigrants, because that would mean they would be closer to my country and have it easier to immigrate here. But Germans there don't bother me, it doesn't threaten my folk. Like I said in the thread about culture preservation ->> here, I just don't care for the fate of foreign cultures as much as I do for the fate of my people.

    Would Germany be quick to come to the aid of ethnic Germans in foreign countries? In a perfect world they would, but currently I'm not so sure.
    Not the current Germany. But I'm not talking about what it does, rather what I think it should do. In some of the old times it looked after the ethnic Germans. When ethnic Germans were persecuted in the Sudetenland and Poland right before WWII, Germany interfered to help them.

    My country is a melting pot, as they say. I don't have too much concern over who mixes. Anyone can be an American. To be a good American I really have to accept everyone, as long as they respect this country.
    I'm no American but I can't understand this thinking. I don't think anyone can be an American. American has a history behind it too, your country wasn't always a melting pot. It has founders, who were mostly Germanics. They took the land from the Native Americans, but they created a state there by themselves. You're not as old as the European countries, but that doesn't mean you should accept anyone. Wouldn't a "good American" defend the status his ancestors had, the principles they stood for? I doubt the founding fathers of America wrote the Declaration of Independence for Mexicans, Africans, Asians, Muslims and other foreigners. America opened its borders to this kind of immigration only later.

    And I think a tiny amount of foreign (mainly Germanic) genes mixing into the ethnic German population of Germany isn't a bad thing. Foreigners have been bred into every ethnicity all over the world, and I think it's a natural occurence. But alas there is no way to keep tabs on it and control it, so in the grand scheme of things not allowing it to happen may be the only way to make sure it doesn't go too far.
    I'm not against a tiny input of Germanic genes in Germany because they're compatible racially, but we were talking about something else, about racial foreigners like Mexicans, who are alien to the Germanic genepool and I can't understand why any good American would want them to integrate in his country.
    THINK! It's not illegal yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    My country is a melting pot, as they say. I don't have too much concern over who mixes. Anyone can be an American. To be a good American I really have to accept everyone, as long as they respect this country.
    Who taught you that garbage? Schoolhouse Rock?

    The Great American Melting Pot


    America is founded by the English...but also the French, Dutch, and...Germans!

    Skip nearly 300 years of history and then it really kicks in with Slavs, Italians, Cubans, and Jews!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    Would Germany be quick to come to the aid of ethnic Germans in foreign countries? In a perfect world they would, but currently I'm not so sure.
    I greatly admire our Germans who have remained loyal to Germandom despite great adversity. The only way to come to their aid is through the creation of a folkish state that expands across the territory where they reside, or at least exerts indirect control over it. Under present circumstances, there is not a single German state in existence, anywhere, and "Germany" remains an ethno-cultural concept without independent statehood on its soil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    My country is a melting pot, as they say. I don't have too much concern over who mixes. Anyone can be an American. To be a good American I really have to accept everyone, as long as they respect this country.
    Then you should stop being American, or redefine American identity in such a way that this anti-Germanic obligation is no longer placed on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    And I think a tiny amount of foreign (mainly Germanic) genes mixing into the ethnic German population of Germany isn't a bad thing. Foreigners have been bred into every ethnicity all over the world, and I think it's a natural occurence.
    Yes, of course. The important thing is to make sure that our population as an organic entity is developed in a positive direction and this also concerns the individuals it encompasses, as well as cohesion between all parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    But alas there is no way to keep tabs on it and control it
    Not at the moment, but there should be systems in place that encourage beneficial outcomes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soten View Post
    Who taught you that garbage? Schoolhouse Rock?

    America is founded by the English...but also the French, Dutch, and...Germans!

    Skip nearly 300 years of history and then it really kicks in with Slavs, Italians, Cubans, and Jews!

    It's horrible. I was talking to an Australian at the Bar on this subject. Italians converged en masse to his country in the 1950's and completely turned Australia from a Celtic nation to a Mediterranean one.
    It's unfair that we took millions of these Slavs/Italians/Cubans/Jews, in addition to being parasitical (when was the last time we saw an Italian in an occupation that generated wealth?) they are non-compatible.



    I can relate with Siebenbürgerin's position. I have trouble finding a compatible partner of similar ethnicity and age. At least where I live and go to school, most of the people in my age group are foreigners, mixed in ethnicity and/or otherwise incompatible.

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    It's amazing how much one can say and then realize that he didn't explain his position very well at all, specifically my views on immigration and integration.

    For instance Sissi wanted the foreign populations of Germany to keep to themselves, and I wanted them to integrate. I should have specified that although I believe in integration, in my ideal Germany immigration would be SEVERELY restricted. It would be a trickle compared to what it is now, and the huge foreign influx (of Turks mainly) would never have happened in the first place.

    I see a Germany that is maybe 3.5% non-German Germanics and 1.5% non-Germanic as being ideal. This 5% would dedicate themselves to Germany and do everything they could to become Germans and would mate with Germans (if the Germans would mate with them). After a couple or so generations, their bloodlines would be more German than not and eventually would become just about entirely German.

    I know that this is in direct opposition of what many feel is Germanic preservation, but I feel I'd rather have Germany absorb a degree of foreigners than to have small enclaves of foreigners who remain loyal to their former countries. The only other answer would be to totally forbid immigration by non-Germanics, and then Germany would lose the respect of almost the entire rest of the world.

    My views on the US are liberal but probably not as liberal as they seem. For instance I'm staunchly against all illegal immigration, but I do respect people of all kinds coming here and being here legally, as long as they put America first. Sometimes my views against blacks, Hispanics, and Jews are negative, but that's only when I feel like they are working against what's good for my country. When those non-Germanics work hard, fly right, and put America first I'm not going to condemn them.

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