View Poll Results: Does class/social standing matter to you in relationships?

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  • Yes.

    24 51.06%
  • No.

    16 34.04%
  • Other (I shall explain).

    7 14.89%
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Thread: Does Class/Social Standing Matter in Relationships?

  1. #21
    Senior Member BrynhildsFate's Avatar
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    I would never be able to date outside of my "class". I have a hard time even thinking about dating a male who makes less than me. I think that was always beat into my head by my mother. I want a male as a provider for my children at a level i am comfortable at. On the other hand dating someone upper class would just make me feel like a gold digger or dowdy girl he picked up from pity. Either way i love working class men their trials and tribulations and connect with that. The bum and the executive just wont work for me.
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  2. #22
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    I have noticed in the past, that I tend to be quite classist anyhow. Not by choice, but just because it happens. I'll observe people's behaviour and immediately link it to their background. This ranges from table manners to articulation, language and general predicament.

    I must say that I actually find some working class mannerisms quite disturbing. This ranges from the excessive use of foul language (conceived worse in German than English, though) to keeping your elbows out like fisherboat sailing canvas whilst shoveling like a caterpillar truck --- I doubt I could see myself with a lass who didn't know how to behave herself at the table, swore all the time or burped and farted and found it funny. Actually, the exaggeration of this would be lower class mannerisms, which I find even fouler.

    Don't get me wrong, I have numerous working class friends, both male and female, and some of them are such excellent buddies that I wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. But that doesn't mean that I don't sometimes find some of their mannerisms disturbing.

    There are notable exceptions and some cute and nice working class girls who have some sense of style and where I'd be able to put up with some shortcomings of upbringing where they do occur, but generally I'm looking for a lady, not a streetwise fighting machine with mannerisms that'd put a Mordor Orc to shame.

    I'm sorry, but I suppose I was brought up too well as to not see it. But then again, I have to say to my defense that I wouldn't date up by particularly far, since I find some of their mannerisms pretentious. I'm happy within the wider (upper) middle-class range within which I grew up, and there's probably a good reason for that.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  3. #23
    Senior Member Loddfafner's Avatar
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    I am most comfortable with aristocrats and with ex-convicts. I am more awkward with anyone in between those two extremes.
    The sitters in the hall seldom know
    The kin of the new-comer:
    The best man is marred by faults,
    The worst is not without worth.
    -- The Havamal, #133 (trans. Auden and Taylor)

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingolf View Post
    It is surprising to see that 20-year olds - in the upwardly very mobile 21st century - exhibit a kind of (pseudo-?)class-consciousness, emphasizing class distinction as a criterion.
    I don't go with the time, I'm too backwards and too conservative to change these old conceptions! Traditional stuff FTW!

    Nah, seriously - as I said - I don't do it by choice, it just happens. I can't see myself with a girl who doesn't know how to hold a fork. I must say that whilst I have many working class friends, and yes, have actually had working class ex-girlfriends ... it is not a milieu in which I find myself at home, and some of the mannerisms that may seem everyday to a working class or even lower class person, I find quite repulsive. Even though I sympathise much with the working class' goals and admire their pride in what they do. But see, in my background, other things are expected ... We may be poor as a church rat these days, but we're still upper-middle at heart.

    I'm not giving them a glass ceiling, but well ... I may like rural girls, but I don't like peasant girls if you know what I mean. I'd feel quite embarassed to sit at a family dinner and see my girl shoveling the food. If she's working class and a lady in all respects, sure, fine --- but I'm not interested if she's the epitome of Tracy Towerblock. I've actually turned lovely lasses down before because I felt they didn't live up to these behavioural standards I'd expect from a girl.

    I love the straightforwardness of the working class - but it's still not my background, and therefore it'd be hard for me to see myself with an utterly working class girl, unless she definitely had some style.

    Obviously, class distinctions are more prominent and important in the UK and Germany (among the Kleinburgerschaft) than in Scandinavia, for instance.
    Yes, you lads have been through this communist class-less society for a wee while now. There's a reason why there's three classes in Rigsthula, such was the old Germanic way. There is no shame in people having different social classes, instead I feel that it is part of what made f.ex. Britain work the way it was before Thatcherism kicked in and killed class distinctions except for economic values and except for creating an underclass below all that.

    It is, of course, understandable that extremely wealthy persons must be careful and highly selective/squeamish in these matters.
    Again - I'm not wealthy these days. But the attitude I have been brought up with, I am afraid is more of that (upper-) middle class laissez faire than the working class spirit. I'll actually go as far as saying that I'd find it inappropriate if my children chose to pursue a career in manual labour; I'm sorry, but I'm afraid that I'm bit of a burgeoise b*****d when it comes to these matters.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingolf View Post
    Scandinavian socialist experiments have been imported from (different versions of) Germany. Socialism in Scandinavia is direct result of German influence.
    Suppose so, but then again is any type of social Socialism desirable? Economic collectivism - maybe - but social collectivism ... we have seen where it's led us.

    Yet your concept of conservatism and general approach reminds me more of the German lower middle class (Kleinburgerschaft),
    Well, I suppose it is hard to say. If the approach is of the petite burgeoisie then that is probably less of a factual claim of immediate background, but more of a factual claim of trying hard not to fall into it.

    You identify correctly that the ones most particular about class mannerisms are the ones that just fall into it, so I suppose in the case of the economic divide, it is an attempt to safeguard the disintegrating middle-class in the face of class becoming more and more an economical issue and less and less a social issue and a matter of upbriging.

    By ancestral professions in different lines always ranging along the doctor, priest, mayor, lawyer, bank executive and high-school/university teacher and land-owning farmerdom (as opposed to leased farmerdom) --- as well as by the fact that we've traditionally been land-owning in all times preceding my parents, I would feel that we're surely upper-middle class by definition, albeit I won't deny that we're slowly in decline and that I hope to stop that decline into the petite burgeoisie you mentioned with the social values I've still been passed on. Blame a few stubborn "I'll take you to court over your hedge protruding into my garden" ancestors for that one.

    Also in note must be the fact probably that my great-grandfather was the only doctor within 40 miles and thus, considering they all grew up around a bunch of peasants, to be considered upper-middle class may have been all the more of a privilege, but on the other hand - it might not have been as posh as the corresponding burgeoisie in the towns and cities: I'm the second within ten generations to actually be born in a city, the rest were mostly "country bumpkins" if you will.

    with its peculiar *neurosis of class* and obsession with rituals, dogmas and table manners (how to hold a fork and other vital issues).
    Except that my mention of it is very topical, and would also be mentioned in actual discussions about the matter. The only ones however I'd directly tell off for lacking manners are my immediate family, because it is indeed my business if my little brother shovels and grunts like swine.

    If you met me for official dinner, you'd be very unlikely to actually hear me bemoan your manners (hypothetically speaking, for I believe you probably have good manners), I'd just innerly roll my eyes and attempt to "lead by example". Again, coming from the rural rather than the urban as far as ancestry is concerned, my own may be less posh than your average pre-1940s rich townsman - but nonetheless, I would have you realise your own shortcomings. I only usually criticise in a position of care.

    Now as far as discussion etiquette is concerned, I must agree that for the most part I can be at the cutting edge between the belt line and utmost tact, as you may know. But that's not a class thing, that's just being an opinionated young lad, and I suppose as I get a little older, my rationale might be presented less vigorously and more subtly.

    At the same time you admit having *many working class friends*
    The revolution must come from the bottom, so it is good to befriend them.

    Nah, kidding. But let's face it --- the majority of people actually willing to change something about the quagmire society finds itself in tends to be from the lower castes of the totem, and thus by definition I will have a good number of friends from a working class milieu. So many of my more recently made friends tend to come from a lower social class than I do, except one, with whom I find myself at par in these terms.

    My childhood friends, with whom I am still in good contact are mainly lower-middle-class, and that be because my mother for all intents and purposes married a man whose first marriage was somewhat a class down, and that his choice of abode was thus, understandably in a suburban climate.

    So, I suppose you're correct in spotting certain lower-middle attitudes, but they're cause mainly be the extrafamiliar environment. I'd like to see the overall approach as influenced by it, but not exclusively coined by it.

    even *working class ex-girlfriends*??
    There was one particular one, whom I met over an internet forum, and another whom I met young in a transitional schooling accomodation, which was between my expulsion from the first boarding school I went to and my further education. Love falls where it may fall and obviously there were less issues involved at that point in time, possibly because we met in a setting where the differences were hardly as obvious.

    Don't ask me as to my 22% rate of ex-girlfriends coming from working class, it just happened back in the day. It's not to be explained.

    Ps. No disrespect intended.
    No offense taken.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Suppose so, but then again is any type of social Socialism desirable? Economic collectivism - maybe - but social collectivism ...
    I can only speak for myself, and I am not a socialist in any sense. Both 20-century socialism and 19th-century conservatism are outdated, imo.

    If the concept of class itself is not outdated, as you seem to suggest, my question is: does class-consciousness really matter in any positive sense (for example, eugenic) in contemporary society?

    Germany has in the course of its history certainly been aware of the dangers of exaggerated class-consciousness - a card successfully played by Jewish activists and Marxists against the unity of the German nation.

  7. #27
    Senior Member CordeliaforLear's Avatar
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    I personally look for biological, social, and intellectual qualities in a mate.

    Fertility, intelligence, and correct attitudes.

    My wife is endowed richly with all three, and therefore, I am a rich man.

    That is worth far more to me then what her parents did for a living.

  8. #28
    Senior Member michael's Avatar
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    I voted Yes because how often do people really move outside their preferred group?

    It can and does cause endless problems. Fairytales are for books not for reality.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Thrymheim's Avatar
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    It is a definate yes for me too, I have dated outside of my social class and after a while I find the lack of manners very annoying! it is possible to improve your manners and your speech, so why sound like an uneducated fool?
    In short I run a quick check, would I be happy introducing him to my parents? If he doesn't have enough manners then he fails this test, and the relationship won't work.
    Other things are important as well, but if the person can't be bothered to try and improve themselves and rise above their class I'm not interested, equally I wouldn't want to date up as that would make me very uncomfortable, I think Deary put that brilliantly earlier on.
    Cattle die, kinsmen die,
    the self must also die;
    but glory never dies,
    For the one who is able to achieve it.

    Sayings of the High One.

  10. #30
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    Money is no criterion, character values trump over money anytime.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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