Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: A Non-Germanic Skadi?

  1. #1
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Online
    Friday, June 18th, 2010 @ 01:54 PM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    Vandalic
    Ancestry
    Reidgotalandic
    Location
    Limes Germanicus
    Gender
    Posts
    943
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    18
    Thanked in
    17 Posts

    A Non-Germanic Skadi?

    Typical Skadi activities - i.e. hunting, shooting, skiing, etc. - are usually not associated with women in Norse culture. It has been suggested (Else Mundal, Eric Elgqvist among others) that Skadi should be seen in a Sami cultural context. Skadis father, Thiazi, is said to derive from the Sami god for fishing, Tjatseolmai; tjatse meaning *water*. The name of her son, Saeming, could be derived from the ethnonym *Saami*.

    Is it possible that the Jotuns/giants - representing the power of chaos - were associated with non-Germanic ethnicities, i.e. an alien Volksgeist?

  2. #2
    Moderator
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Funding Membership Inactive
    Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    5 Days Ago @ 08:09 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Bavarii, Saxones, Suebi, Alamanni
    Subrace
    Borreby + Atlantonordoid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    Einöde in den Alpen
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Zodiac Sign
    Libra
    Family
    Engaged
    Politics
    Tradition & Homeland
    Religion
    Odinist
    Posts
    9,128
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    76
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    315
    Thanked in
    202 Posts
    Here's your little box, and here it has a window out of which you may well look so as to think a little outside it.

    Skadi is an antithesis of the stay-at-home mother on purpose. It is well documented that it was permitted oft for an unmarried woman that she be partaking in warfare. I find that it shows that women had more of a choice in the old days.

    Taking it a little further, you must admit that it has always been a matter of truth that women like Skadi exist. Little girls that like to play football and don't play with dolls. That are stubbornly independent.

    As such, Skadi shows that ancient Germanic societies recognised this matter, and permitted this, as long as she were not in a position of responsibility over children.

    The fact that she ends up marrying Njord (even though she favoured Balder) I feel is more of a matter of pointing out matters of recompense for wrongs dealt, i.e. Wergeld ...

    Now as to her still prefering Balder, a noble man venerated by all --- well I suppose not all tomboys are lesbians.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  3. #3
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Online
    Friday, June 18th, 2010 @ 01:54 PM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    Vandalic
    Ancestry
    Reidgotalandic
    Location
    Limes Germanicus
    Gender
    Posts
    943
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    18
    Thanked in
    17 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Here\\\'s your little box, and here it has a window out of which you may well look so as to think a little outside it.
    I am not sure whose boxes and windows you are referring to. Your contribution does not address the main issue here, e.g. the linguistic, ethnic and religious arguments. Hunting was a masculine domain in Germanic culture. This is not so, however, in Sami culture.

    The Germanic gods represent order; their antipodes, the Jotuns, represent the chaos forces.

  4. #4
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Last Online
    Monday, July 16th, 2012 @ 01:14 AM
    Ethnicity
    CeltoGermanic
    Country
    Vinland Vinland
    State
    Alabama Alabama
    Gender
    Age
    39
    Family
    Married, happily
    Occupation
    Tree Wizard
    Religion
    Wotanist
    Posts
    429
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    It's a thought.

    There is a thread called "Coexistence of Saami and Norse culture in myths" with a link to Else Mundal's take on the matter..

    I'd like to read some more about this. Anything come recommended..??

    Later,
    -Lyfing

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Aemma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Online
    Monday, May 2nd, 2011 @ 02:38 AM
    Ethnicity
    Franco-Norman/Anglo Canadian
    Ancestry
    Normandy; North-West England
    Subrace
    Borreby-DaloFaelid/AngloSaxon
    Country
    Canada Canada
    State
    Ontario Ontario
    Location
    Ottawa
    Gender
    Family
    Married, happily
    Religion
    Heathen
    Posts
    157
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Skadi is an antithesis of the stay-at-home mother on purpose. It is well documented that it was permitted oft for an unmarried woman that she be partaking in warfare. I find that it shows that women had more of a choice in the old days.

    Taking it a little further, you must admit that it has always been a matter of truth that women like Skadi exist. Little girls that like to play football and don't play with dolls. That are stubbornly independent.

    As such, Skadi shows that ancient Germanic societies recognised this matter, and permitted this, as long as she were not in a position of responsibility over children.
    Surely you're not suggesting that our beloved Skadi is bi-sexual or even lesbian, Sigurd. Though I get your point, I fail to see how we should be defeminizing Skadi just because her natural inclinations run towards being in the wilderness and hunting and skiing. Yes indeed she is stubbornly independent but this does not mean that she does not represent an equally valid feminine principle within the Germanic folk. If anything, Skadi demonstrates the beauty of not only inner but outer strength, independence and self-sufficiency that all female Odinists/Heathens also strive towards. Let's not relegate our beloved Skadi to the realm of the 'manly woman'. She is all woman and all feminine too.

    And Vingolf, interesting to speculate on what you present. I personally don't know enough about the Sami culture and belief system to add anything of value here other than I pretty much believe that Skadi is a Germanic goddess through and through. But I find your line of inquiry interesting nonetheless.

    Frith...Aemma

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Aemma For This Useful Post:


  7. #6
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Online
    Friday, June 18th, 2010 @ 01:54 PM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    Vandalic
    Ancestry
    Reidgotalandic
    Location
    Limes Germanicus
    Gender
    Posts
    943
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    18
    Thanked in
    17 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Aemma View Post
    I pretty much believe that Skadi is a Germanic goddess through and through.
    Well, she is a giantess, not a goddess - Germanic or not

    The main issue here, imho, is the antagonism between gods and giants. The Njord-Skadi marriage was not a happy union (childless and antagonistic).

  8. #7
    Senior Member
    rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last Online
    Sunday, February 28th, 2010 @ 05:34 PM
    Ethnicity
    Germanic
    Ancestry
    Scotch-Irish, Welsh, English, Dutch, German, French
    Subrace
    Alpine-Nordic mix
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Ohio Ohio
    Location
    ohio
    Gender
    Family
    Single, looking
    Politics
    Libertarian/Tribalist
    Religion
    Asatru
    Posts
    1,310
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    14
    Thanked in
    14 Posts
    exactly Skadi is a Jotun. I always believed Jotuns to on some level at least be a symbol of outsiders i.e. non Aryo-Germanic or better stated "barbarians" to the Germans. While in some ways also representing forces of nature or other things we struggle against (perhaps our own nature).

    Actually "Elf" simply means "white" (Alben/Albos/Albino) and elves mostly represent white ancestors. (dwarves are "dark elves" meaning dark whites- Alpines. Light Elves are Nordic blond, blue eyed whites) Vanir and Aesir are both the same astrological gods from two different cultures that merged, but Aesir also comes from "Aryan" or "Asian" also known in Vedica "Ashuras" which mean "heavens" literally as the Aryans were the "sky people" or "the shining ones" (also name given to elves) or "the serpent kings" (name given to the wise- also found in Chinese and Meso-American cultures which have roots in Aryan teachings).

    Tales of Jotuns, elves etc. interbreeding are all tales of evolution and de-evolution of peoples. The story of Rig which gives a common motif of the superiority of the third of 3 sons gives the tale of evolution to modern Germanics. The grandfathers/mthers proginated the lowest class of people (thralls) the parents proginated the middle class (karl) and the children proginated the highest class (jarl). The third son of the jarl was kon-ung, the first king- rig. Rig meaning "king" (latin rex/Cletic Rig also the Sanskirt/Ancient Aryan Rig-Veda). Presumably but I don't know if this is in the lore anywhere what came before the oldest class of thralls were the jotuns. Though some folk can revert back to more primitive states just like a noble man can have a retarded child or something (thus you have jotuns in Asgard etc.).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%ADg

  9. #8
    Senior Member
    Aemma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Online
    Monday, May 2nd, 2011 @ 02:38 AM
    Ethnicity
    Franco-Norman/Anglo Canadian
    Ancestry
    Normandy; North-West England
    Subrace
    Borreby-DaloFaelid/AngloSaxon
    Country
    Canada Canada
    State
    Ontario Ontario
    Location
    Ottawa
    Gender
    Family
    Married, happily
    Religion
    Heathen
    Posts
    157
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Vingolf View Post
    Well, she is a giantess, not a goddess - Germanic or not
    Well it depends on who and what you read in the end Vingolf as to whether or not Skadi is seen as a goddess or not. Indeed she is a Jotun, no ifs, ands, or buts about it but there are indications that she has been perceived as a goddess as well, and some Heathens/Odinists such as I do see her as a goddess first and foremost, though she is of Jotun stock.

    According to Simek's Dictionary of Norse mythology:

    Skadi (ON). The daughter of the giant Thjazi, the wife of the god Njordr and the mother of Freyr [de facto mother of Freyja], a goddess of hunting and skiing. The Eddic lays only say that Skadi is the daughter of the giant Thjazi (Hyndlujod 30) and that she lives in Thrymheimr (Grimnismal 11); Lokasenna (49, 51, Pr) names her as the wife of Njordr and one of the Aesir.
    Elsewhere Simek indicates the following:

    From Gylfaginning 22 we learn that the marriage between Skadi and Njordr is not successful: whilst Njordr is only happy in his domicile Noatun beside the sea, Skadi longs to hunt in the snow-covered mountains; therefore, they make an agreement whereby they spend nine days alternately in Noatun and in Thrymheimr; but Skadi cannot bear Noatun at all and moves back to the mountains. Njord's children, Freyr and Freyja, appear nonetheless to be hers.
    As well, with respect to Skadi having borne offspring:

    According to the tradition in Snorri's Ynglinga saga, after her separation from Njordr Skadi had numerous sons by Odin, from whom Earl Hakon is descended. Here again it is a case of one of the frequent attempts to trace divine ancestors in personal descendency myths and as such it is certainly a construction from the High Middle Ages.
    The veracity of Snorri's accounts notwithstanding, my point in bringing this up remains that depending on the literature that one reads (here I include primary and secondary sources), Skadi is seen to have had some children, the least of which might be Freyr and Freyja.

    And finally with respect to her designation of goddess, Simek offers this last bit:

    Skadi is called ondurdís 'ski-goddess' by the skalds (Eyvindr, Haleygjatal 4 and Bragi, Ragnarsdrapa 20); she goes hunting armed with a bow and arrow, and as such she is the counterpart to the Greek goddess Artemis.
    Just a bit of food for thought with respect to deciphering the limited yet varied sources available to us especially with respect to determining the very nature of our gods and goddesses, irrespective of their race.

    The main issue here, imho, is the antagonism between gods and giants. The Njord-Skadi marriage was not a happy union (childless and antagonistic).
    This however I shall have to return to. 'Tis a great topic of discussion.

    Frith...Aemma

  10. #9
    Bloodhound
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Funding Membership Inactive
    Jäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Atlantean
    Gender
    Posts
    4,405
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    22
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    98
    Thanked in
    68 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    I always believed Jotuns to on some level at least be a symbol of outsiders i.e. non Aryo-Germanic or better stated "barbarians" to the Germans.
    To further investigate that question, is there a male giant who took a female god as a bride?
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  11. #10
    Senior Member
    Psychonaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Online
    Wednesday, May 18th, 2016 @ 01:34 AM
    Ethnicity
    Acadian
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Pennsylvania Pennsylvania
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Politics
    Old Stock Nativism
    Religion
    Heathen Theosophy
    Posts
    927
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10
    Thanked in
    10 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    To further investigate that question, is there a male giant who took a female god as a bride?
    They tried to get a hold of Freyja and Sif, but were foiled each time. As far as I know, intermarriages between members of the Æsir or Vanir with the Jötnar always consisted of the Giantess and a God.
    "Ocean is more ancient than the mountains, and freighted with the memories and the dreams of Time."
    -H.P. Lovecraft

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 21
    Last Post: Thursday, January 31st, 2019, 03:29 AM
  2. Germanic Forum Fonts, Officially Supported by Skadi
    By Thorburn in forum Rules & Announcements
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Thursday, July 27th, 2006, 04:20 AM
  3. Skadi Changed its Orientation: Germanic instead of European
    By Thorburn in forum Rules & Announcements
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: Sunday, November 28th, 2004, 03:15 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •