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Thread: Why Apartheid?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    You finally disqualified yourself as being knowledgeable on that part of South African history.
    Sorry to disappoint but unlike you my knowledge of the time in question was through personal experience and living memory.
    Having a clear non brainwashed outlook was also a plus.


    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    racial problems…inherited from the British
    To suggest that the British Empire had anything to do with the National Party instituting Apart-Hate would be amusing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    Separate Development is the explanatory name of South Africas project to solve it's racial problems.
    Again Separate Development did not exist but was a myth in an attempt to give the Governing dictatorship some kind of imagenary credibility.
    These so called racial problems was created by the National Party through inhuman regulations to protect their position of absolute dominance over a majority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    * "Apart hate" - In fact that is Tutus pronounciation of it.
    No it is my personal pronunciation because this is what it is. “Apart HATE”

    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    They just have a few Blacks as window dressing.
    I sincerely wish this were true. I really do but alas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    So the measures taken by the then South African government were by definition an act of self defence.
    No you underestimate the severity of the National Parties paranoia towards being challenged. During State of Emergencies these restrictions and abuse of human rights were extended to military curfews and even more punitive restrictions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    you have demonstrated pretty well that you have no clue what you are talking about. Guess you are only parroting what you heard at school or in the media.
    Again you underestimate who you are talking to with another weak attempt to impress yourself with your willful ignorance of history and reality.
    Unlike you, I experienced this first hand and certainly not through politically controlled media reports or through the department of educations twisted attempts to indoctrinate the youth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    …millions from neighbouring countries to work and to live in the Old South Africa…
    I can’t dispute this as it is nearly true but remember South Africa has natural mineral recourses and mines providing work for multitudes of migrant workers. The government of the day was of little concern to the foreign work force except that work was available. The only good you talk about was that the mines provided this work. Nothing more.
    Your suggestion that these migrant foreign workers were risking their lives labouring in dangerous mines because you believed they enjoyed life under a White Government that did not constitute black people as human. Strange sense of humor you have.


    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    And if they weren't paid for it by South Africas enemies even the ANC/SACP supporters wouldn't have left the country during their "struggle".
    These enemies you mentioned lived within South Africa so were internal enemies of the government and who ever supported it. These potential combatants would not have moved out of South Africa without good reason but continue their “struggle” internally.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    Sorry to disappoint but unlike you my knowledge of the time in question was through personal experience and living memory.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    Having a clear non brainwashed outlook was also a plus.
    I must say that I doubt that you are any much older then 25, given style, grammar and spelling for an first language English speaker. Everything smells like post 1945 secondary education.

    You claiming not to be brainwashed in the light of the performatory evidence you present, is quite a good joke .
    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    To suggest that the British Empire had anything to do with the National Party instituting Apart-Hate would be amusing.
    Well, again it seems to be a pity that the New South African doesn't teach history very thoroughly. Segregation and many of the so-called "Apartheid" laws were actually instituted by the British:
    http://www.globalpolitician.com/2833-south-apartheid

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    Again Separate Development did not exist but was a myth in an attempt to give the Governing dictatorship some kind of imagenary credibility.
    These so called racial problems was created by the National Party through inhuman regulations to protect their position of absolute dominance over a majority.
    This collection of utter rubbish is hardly worth commenting on. The link that I provided, contained quite some examples on what separate development meant, about which you are in denial:
    http://www.praag.org/opstelle15.htm
    Can you show me something that is wrong in that article?
    Can you also argue what is actually wrong with defending once vital interest?
    (If somebody else wants me to go into details, please ask.)
    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    No it is my personal pronunciation because this is what it is. “Apart HATE”
    No, that's a pretty good demonstration of your attitude and mental state. Someone who uses that kind of language is disqualifying himself from any serious debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    These enemies you mentioned lived within South Africa so were internal enemies of the government and who ever supported it. These potential combatants would not have moved out of South Africa without good reason but continue their “struggle” internally.
    The ANC/SACP did not get the gross of it's money from members, but from the Soviet Union, International finance and even from Churches (without the approval/knowledge of the payed up members/donators).
    If freedom was on the mind of the ANC supporters, why didn't they go and develop their traditional homelands? That they did differently shows you that there was another agenda behind it.
    "And God proclaims as a first principle to the rulers, and above all else, that there is nothing which they should so anxiously guard, or of which they are to be such good guardians, as of the purity of the race. They should observe what elements mingle in their offspring;..." Plato Politeia

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    The ideology of apartheid was born out of ignorance, fear and the unwillingness to share. So yes it was an adapted precautionary measure in some strange way.
    "Sharing" in this context is equivalent to handing over. Europe is being Islamisized in no small part due to its leftist leaders eager to "share" their countries with the desert people. Would you label Europeans who wish to preserve their ancestral lands for their own kind similarly "unwilling to share"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    Sorry to disappoint but unlike you my knowledge of the time in question was through personal experience and living memory.

    [...]

    Again you underestimate who you are talking to with another weak attempt to impress yourself with your willful ignorance of history and reality.
    Unlike you, I experienced this first hand [...]
    Since you claim great age, and you clearly disapprove of the socio-political system during the Apartheid-era, were you one of those people who voted "Yes" for "reformations" and afterwards celebrated how the nine wolves would henceforth be allowed to vote together with the one sheep about what they'll all have for dinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    These so called racial problems was created by the National Party through inhuman regulations to protect their position of absolute dominance over a majority.
    Do you deny that the very presence of that majority and the alternative of a multicultural society (like we suffer now) constituted a racial problem in itself?

    Quote Originally Posted by MacAdder View Post
    Again Separate Development did not exist but was a myth in an attempt to give the Governing dictatorship some kind of imagenary credibility.
    The methods of the government of the day may have been flawed, but it was nevertheless a means to stay off cultural decimation. There was no perfect solution. I'm not fond of how the concept was implemented either, but I would rather have my folk survive under what our enemies perceive as a dictatorship than not at all. What would have been your preferred method of safeguarding our 350-year old heritage? Or is this question not applicable to you since you don't identify with either of the two Germanic ethnicities present in SA?

    In the end humans are all equal and should be judged on there merits and not pigment and cultural differences.
    Twice have I seen you simply using the word pigment when referring to race. Do you honestly believe skin coloration is the extent of racial differences?

  4. #34
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    The question of South Africa comes down to whose interests you are looking out for, the Europeans' or the Africans'. Apartheid was the only means by which the European settlers could prevent race mixing and maintain a white society on a black continent, tolerance would inevitably have led to the situation we have in Europe today. If you don't mind the racial, cultural and social mischmasch which is multicultural/multiracial Europe then I can see why you would have a problem with white South Africans protecting themselves and the society which they built from being overrun and destroyed by the surrounding negro tribes, but if you do then I don't get why you would find apartheid to be that objectionable. The only objection I have about the apartheid system (or segregation for that matter), and as I have explained in the past is the fact that racial separation, to date, has a history of failure and cannot be expected to be upheld indefinately.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    I doubt that you are any much older then 25, given style, grammar and spelling for an first language English speaker
    If this is an attempt to insult, you haven’t as I never proclaimed myself an English Language master. I apologies if my spelling or grammar have upset you. It was certainly was not my attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    The link that I provided, contained quite some examples on what separate development meant, about which you are in denial:
    Firstly: The link you provided was in a language I can verbally communicate in but do not read.
    Secondly: I have no compulsion to read mythical political propaganda not worth my time.
    Thirdly: “Separate Development” would be all but impossibility due to logistical, economical and many, many logical undisputable reasons.
    In short “Separate Development” was a mere idea and never practiced so not worth the discussion time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    The ANC/SACP did not get the gross of it's money from members, but from the Soviet Union, International finance and even from Churches (without the approval/knowledge of the payed up members/donators).
    If freedom was on the mind of the ANC supporters, why didn't they go and develop their traditional homelands? That they did differently shows you that there was another agenda behind it.
    I am not disputing that the ANC/SACP acquired finance from who ever. Hey, they even solicited money from musical Pop groups such as ABBA.
    Regards the “Homelands”. I don’t dispute there existence either but dispute there “independents” as self-governing countries / homelands. No international recognition etc.
    These homelands were only recognized by The National Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    a pretty good demonstration of your attitude and mental state .
    Don’t presume my mental state as it has nothing to do with anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraaf View Post
    Since you claim great age, and you clearly disapprove of the socio-political system during the Apartheid-era, were you one of those people who voted "Yes" for "reformations" and afterwards celebrated how the nine wolves would henceforth be allowed to vote together with the one sheep about what they'll all have for dinner?
    I make no claim to a “great” age but have enough experience not to rely on someone’s closed minded publishing’s to have an accurate or ethical opinion.

    I apologies but have absolutely no idea regards your analogy of wolves, sheep and dinner. Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraaf View Post
    Do you deny that the very presence of that majority and the alternative of a multicultural society (like we suffer now) constituted a racial problem in itself?
    We have the racial problem today because of the previous system being oppressive to the extreme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraaf View Post
    The methods of the government of the day may have been flawed, but it was nevertheless a means to stay off cultural decimation. There was no perfect solution. I'm not fond of how the concept was implemented either, but I would rather have my folk survive under what our enemies perceive as a dictatorship than not at all. What would have been your preferred method of safeguarding our 350-year old heritage? Or is this question not applicable to you since you don't identify with either of the two Germanic ethnicities present in SA?
    I sympathize with the people you speak of and have no quick remedy for what should have been done at the time. I am able to comment on what has happened and give praise, recognition or condemnation to what has already occured but no absolute solutions.
    I do have my own personal opinions when looking back at the past but don’t claim to have all the answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraaf View Post
    Do you honestly believe skin coloration is the extent of racial differences?
    We as humans are social beings that feel comfortable amongst our own ethnic cultural groups. The colour of our skin is a differentiating difference that sets us apart from Orientals, Blacks, and Indians etc. Within that colour group we are divided via cultural, religion etc.
    In answer to your post no, but in this country we were divided by colour first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    The question of South Africa comes down to whose interests you are looking out for, the Europeans' or the Africans'
    This is the issue right there. This division could have been a social one but as soon as it became a legal document and enforced by a minority it was doomed and will have negative implications as long as we as a country do not identify ourselves as South Africans rather than being Black, White, India, Coloured or Orientals etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    race mixing…. has a history of failure and cannot be expected to be upheld
    This occurred even before the Europeans employed Hottentot women in their kitchens. I try not be condescending or explicitly against marriage of different groups but I personally will not encourage the practice.
    I believe that we all have our own choices and prejudices and should not enforce our opinions on others.

  6. #36
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    I only recently read about that until the 1930s when the "racial problem" was mentioned, it referred to English speaking South Africans vs. Afrikaners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocelot View Post
    Aren't you forgetting that the Israel you seem to hate so much actually helped SA with its nuclear program back in the days? .
    Israel betrayed us bad after 1987. The only reason Israel was ever friendly to SA was in order to develop nukes. (i.e. materials they needed)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Look, I have no problem with English folk, they are fellow Germanic people -- regardless of what happened in wars. The vast majority of English people had nothing to do with this, so nobody can blame them or blame an entire nation.

    The idea of the concentration camps came from Lord Kitchener, in some sort of "final solution" to prevent an embarrassing defeat of the British Empire against a handful of brave Boers. In fact, this was the Second Boer War. The first one was actually won by the Boers. Only after 500,000 British soldiers from all over the empire was sent to South Africa to fight the Boers, could they defeat this band of Germanic peasants who numbered less than 100,000 in men strength. They could not conquer the men so they went after the women and children who stayed back on the farms, in what they called a "scorched earth policy".

    You seem to be equating this instance with other European colonial endeavours. This one was very different. The Boers were not a native African tribe like the Zulus. They were pioneering families of Dutch and German descent who fought for land to stay on and farm in peace. It was the discovery of gold and diamonds which caused the British to lust after the riches of South Africa, and defeat the Boers at all costs.

    This suffering actually became known in Europe at the time, and caused the British government an embarrassment. There was much opposition from the British public, and a kind lady named Emily Hobhouse did much for the Afrikaner people in humanitarian assistance. She is still regarded as a hero in South Africa.



    Wow you certainly have a gift of reaching swift, simple conclusions to complex historical questions.

    This post by Loki gives a good summary of this matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gebirgsjager View Post
    Israel betrayed us bad after 1987. The only reason Israel was ever friendly to SA was in order to develop nukes. (i.e. materials they needed)
    The only reason the were friendly towards the Boer people is that they stupidly admire Jews and acknowledge them as the "chosen people" as they feel themselves to be a chosen people, just like their Jewish example.

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    Lord Horatio Kitchener was the butcher.

    Kitcener was the architect of concentration camps in South Africa. Per Capita more Boer people were killed than the Jews in WW11. I was surprised the learn that Kitchener grew up not far from where I reside and I started researching the matter. His father was a quite well off Englishman judging by the old photos of their homesteads. When I tracked down the exact location of the two properties I was shocked to discover that both were completely demolished. What is left of the gardens acts as a faint reminder of the former splendour.
    He was and still is not loved in County Kerry, Ireland.

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