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Thread: Charles the Saxon Butcher As an Avatar Choice?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winslow Hunt View Post
    Imperialism and empires are against the spirit of our Teutonic ancestors, who valued freedom as an important part of their beliefs.
    If they were smart, they valued Germanic freedom, which says nothing about e.g. Slavic slavery
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    That roughly parallels the debate regarding the Germany's third empire, and just about any other historical leader from Germanic history: William the Conqueror, Bismarck, Lincoln, Patton, Eisenhower, as well as assorted leaders from the American Revolution, various periods of English history, viking raiders, etc.
    To say it blunt, if searching for truly pangermanic heros in history, you will find not too many if any at all. This was true throughout the Germanic history and it was true for most other ethnocultural units as long as they were not united under one rule at least.
    Now guess, how you unite proud and independent people of many tribes under your rule? By good will and friendly words alone? Rather not.

    In the tribal past whole tribes were largely eliminated, like the Langobards did to the Gepids - even worse, they united with the Avars, this foreign and most likely in its core Turkic people against their brethren!

    But on the other hand, they did right so in a way, because so they could stay strong, but their foes being eliminated. Its all a question of political unities in the end.

    As for Charlemagne, he brought up the higher culture in Europe again, with a strong Christianity, with the papism etc., etc. The later being the hardest part of his heritage, not his slaughtering of the Saxons.
    Most people feeling with the Saxons historic fate and dont like the Franks do so primarily because they stood for the old, the Heathen, tribal, Germanic-Indoeuropean past of Germanics, but finally all of Europe.
    A Saxon who is a devoted Christian, or at least was so in the past, might have favoured the Franks and so might a sympathiser of Heathenry at least partly with the Saxons.

    But in the end, there was no real alternative to the new state and strong Christian influence in post-Roman occidental Europe, if considering that fact and the circumstances of the time, the Franks did, in the end, pretty well.

    And they managed to unite most continental Germanics, under one rule, one idea of an Empire and as a common people for a certain time, founded Germany and the occidental culture which allows us to write here in an internet forum about this issue.

    The Saxon way had its advantages and its a pity that the Franks had many bad sides too, but in the end, the Saxon way was no alternative and for that reason, the resistance had to be crushed, to bring them into the new Empire, to secure the border and to open the way for the expansion of Germanics and the new highly evolved occidental culture further East.

    If considering all facts, the Franks under Charlemagne came closest to a Pangermanic and great European empire before the German efforts in the 20th century. And again, because of the circumstances, it was a bloody path because it had to be.

    In the end every person in history and present days has good and bad aspects, and in the end if we admire one, we do so because of specific aspects and the whole impression, not every detail, not every action.
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

  3. #13
    Senior Member Winslow Hunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    According to this Skadi poll, 30.14% of the 509 respondents considered the Franks to have the most impressive achievements and history, with most of that group referencing either Charlemagne or his grandfather Charles Martel.
    Argumentum ad populum

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    Testing ...

    I think this one I am using right now looks better than the selectable one.

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    Senior Member CordeliaforLear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Testing ...

    I think this one I am using right now looks better than the selectable one.
    Thats a snazzy avatar you right-wing oppressor!

  6. #16
    Senior Member Winslow Hunt's Avatar
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    "Right wing oppressor". How about just oppressor and butcher? Someone who shouldn't be celebrated and should be reviled. I think I'll just let this go because most aren't seeing where I'm coming from it seems and to be honest I find it a little strange on a message board that professeses to be for Germanic culture. I guess if it's a Germanic Emperor it's just fine though.

  7. #17
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    Please return to a calm and non-provocative style of discussion.

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    Senior Member CordeliaforLear's Avatar
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    The rationale behind this argument is neo-marxist from the get-go, and therefore has no merit for anyone that is interested in preserving their heritage against the onslaughts of serious, well-organized reparations-diggers.

    Let 1200 year old bygones be bygones, and let us honor our ancient kings in peace, please.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Leonhardt's Avatar
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    The Franks chopped off the heads of the entire Alamanni royal court, but I still do not doubt that they were Germannic.

    Germannic language is where the term "vendetta" comes from. In many cases it refers to the entire tribe.

    The Franks also burned the Knights Templar at the stake in order to avoid paying their debts. It is a mean old world.
    Last edited by Leonhardt; Monday, December 22nd, 2008 at 12:34 PM. Reason: added last sentences

  10. #20
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    I don´t have much sympathy for Charlemagne because of his degenerated and brutal campaign against Germanic heathens but we have to acknowledge that his influence on the Germanic world was not only a negative one.

    So I don´t find his avatar "the best one" from the repertory... I just accept it with a slight discomfort.

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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