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Thread: Charles the Saxon Butcher As an Avatar Choice?

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    Senior Member Winslow Hunt's Avatar
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    Charles the Saxon Butcher As an Avatar Choice?

    As someone who is heavily Saxon I was surprised and offended that one of the avatar choices is Charle"magne". As I'm sure most know, Charles the Butcher was directly involved in Christianizing the continental Saxons. A mass murder of 4500 Saxon's, chopping down the Irminsul and warring against them and subjegating them as a folk.
    Just because someone was Germanic doesn't make them a hero and this picture should be removed as an avatar choice. I wonder am I the only one on here who noticed this? If this is the wrong forum for this thread to be in feel free to move it.

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    Senior Member Psychonaut's Avatar
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    Charlemage did create one of the largest Germanic empires Europe has ever seen. Were it not for him the histories of France, Germany and the Low Countries would be vastly different. Also, there are probably just as many people here who are descended from the Franks as there are Saxons.
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    Senior Member Winslow Hunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    Charlemage did create one of the largest Germanic empires Europe has ever seen. Were it not for him the histories of France, Germany and the Low Countries would be vastly different. Also, there are probably just as many people here who are descended from the Franks as there are Saxons.

    Creating an empire is not something I would be proud of. Imperialism and empires are against the spirit of our Teutonic ancestors, who valued freedom as an important part of their beliefs. Also, I don't see how any of what you just mentioned is something to be proud of. So? The histories of those countries would be different. They would be independent and not have been under his subjugation. That sounds good to me. Also, so there just as many descended from the Franks on here. Does that take away from the crimes he committed?

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    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    This standard would rule out just about every famous person in history.
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    Senior Member Winslow Hunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    This standard would rule out just about every famous person in history.
    But this is a Germanic forum, and this is the infamous butcher and converter of Saxons. Not sure what is so hard to understand about how that could be considered offensive and for that matter how I'm the first person to have had a problem with it? This guy was no Great Man, he didn't bring culture, the Saxons and Frisians had their own just fine and they should have been left alone.

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    Senior Member Anfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winslow Hunt View Post
    As someone who is heavily Saxon I was surprised and offended that one of the avatar choices is Charle"magne". As I'm sure most know, Charles the Butcher was directly involved in Christianizing the continental Saxons. A mass murder of 4500 Saxon's, chopping down the Irminsul and warring against them and subjegating them as a folk.
    Just because someone was Germanic doesn't make them a hero and this picture should be removed as an avatar choice. I wonder am I the only one on here who noticed this? If this is the wrong forum for this thread to be in feel free to move it.
    Hey Winslow, You are in my neck of the Woods, I like It up there.

    I also hate KDM, no "buts" about it. I have been to Verden. Everybody there knows exactly what the site is even cynical people there Dislike his memory.
    I dont feel that people who do not have saxon blood should say "Oh well, those were crazy days,he did build an Empire however". It makes me feel like going to their ancestral homeland and killing 5000 civilians.


    KDM slaughtered all of those *defenseless* people at the orders of an Italian Pope. Great Germanic hero he was.

    I do Medieval reenactment. Allways as a Saxon, never a Frank

    Besides, I believe in authenticity, and I would have to put animal urine on myself to play a Christian crusader circa 762 AD.

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    Senior Member CordeliaforLear's Avatar
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    Pardon me, but this strikes me as a bit PC, being offended by a Germanic king 1200 years ago for 'historical grievances.'

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    Senior Member Psychonaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winslow Hunt View Post
    But this is a Germanic forum, and this is the infamous butcher and converter of Saxons. Not sure what is so hard to understand about how that could be considered offensive and for that matter how I'm the first person to have had a problem with it? This guy was no Great Man, he didn't bring culture, the Saxons and Frisians had their own just fine and they should have been left alone.
    According to this Skadi poll, 30.14% of the 509 respondents considered the Franks to have the most impressive achievements and history, with most of that group referencing either Charlemagne or his grandfather Charles Martel.
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    Senior Member Rik's Avatar
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    Many great Germanic kings nearly killed complete other Germanic tribes during minor battles. I guess. The ancient Germanics were an ferocious people , going at war with eachother was common.
    "There are no races, only countries of people Chuck Norris has beaten to different shades of black and blue."

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    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winslow Hunt View Post
    This is the infamous butcher and converter of Saxons. Not sure what is so hard to understand about how that could be considered offensive and for that matter how I'm the first person to have had a problem with it? This guy was no Great Man, he didn't bring culture, the Saxons and Frisians had their own just fine and they should have been left alone.
    That roughly parallels the debate regarding the Germany's third empire, and just about any other historical leader from Germanic history: William the Conqueror, Bismarck, Lincoln, Patton, Eisenhower, as well as assorted leaders from the American Revolution, various periods of English history, viking raiders, etc.
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