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Thread: The 'Absolutist's' Error(s)

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by exit View Post
    You misunderstand me. Just because Suut started off this thread in an arrogant manner (I believe that he claims that only he has the power to "check" the Absolutist),
    I am one of many who possess such a power. And yes, I will lay claim to that which is mine (but not only mine); and I am justified prima facie in doing so. What you "believe" is of little concern - in so far as you assert your BELIEF as Absolute, and lay claim to knowledge that you cannot exoterically explicate, one can consider your nebulous approach as insignificant - what you can show the observer - he who reads your remarkably nebulous posts - is left to wonder why you bother at all with we idiots.

    ...this does not mean that I wish to enter into a battle over who can be more arrogant.
    Absolutism, is, in and of itself, arrogance personified. You are left with the burden of not only proof, but - much more importantly - significance.

    Everything you have had to say in this thread reduces to what I have always called the "Nanny-nanny-boo-boo" argument. In short: you 'know' what you 'know' and anyone who does not follow your lead is wrong. I am further justified in pointing out that nearly everything that you have elucidated is indicative of not only a complete and utter (be it willfull or ignorant) Indo-European processia, but Semitic in orientation in so far as you have demonstrated yourself of the ilk of a singular, omnimetent, Weltanschauung that you assert, and yet - presumptiously and arrogantly -assert as prime.

    Ego and reputation means nothing to me.
    The pursuit of Fame, in the archaic sense, is Germanic in the extreme. Moreover, if you are so correct; if you are so unconcerned with being heard (and, by default, amplifying your 'ego') you would not be here in the first place.
    Last edited by Hauke Haien; Friday, February 20th, 2009 at 06:55 AM. Reason: removed irrelevances
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

  2. #12
    Senior Member Aemma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exit View Post
    Your argument is absurd and shows a complete lack of understanding insofar as concerns the cosmogonic process. Yes there are "nine worlds" or however many--really indefinite worlds--you wish to invoke. But these are manifested in the relative and are reducible to the One of which they are all but so many aspects.
    Hmm no, exit. That which I bolded is incorrect insofar as this is a discussion related to philosophy and worldviews within Germanic Heathenry; there is no element of "Oneness" within Germanic Heathenry in the sense that you have suggested at any rate. The World Tree/Irminsul/Yggdrasil can be seen as an entity depicting connection/connectivity but it is not meant to be seen as the overarching element imo, ie. "Oneness". Instead, the Germanic World Tree reminds us of the dynamism and tensions that reside in the Germanic spirit and the Germanic worldview. SuuT's triad of Destruction-->Material-->Creation is very reminiscent of Hegel's triadic paradigm of Thesis-->Antithesis-->Synthesis to me. At first blush, we see that triads are extremely important in Germanic Heathen Thought. It is no small wonder that we revere it as a most holy number. But delving deeper we also acknowledge that it is in the richness of the tension and created dynamism between two opposites, fire and ice for instance, that creativity reaches its apex: the veritable creation of Life. I would even boldly say that this type of triadic dynamism is the very foundation of Germanic Thought and feeds itself in endless further iterations. What do you think Ratatoskr's real role is all about afterall? He is the very embodiment of iterations! And what does all of this reiterative activity mean? Continued creativity and movement! No stasis but perpetual motion! Continual-Differentiation-From-The-Other inherently creates Tensions which entails Movement. And this is what is at the very foundation of Germanic Thought!

    If I may ask exit: what is the source of your belief that there is an element of Oneness in Germanic Heathenry? Any references found in the Lore would be very helpful if you have any. Thanks.

    The Perfect can only pertain to the Infinite which is beyond all manifestation; error or that which we call sin only comes about from multiplicity and not from non-differentiation.
    Again the notions of 'perfection' and 'sin' are alien to Germanic Thought. They do not exist in the Germanic heathen worlview as a matter of fact. Instead, these are quite Abrahamic in nature. I would even say that the notion of Perfection is a Dharmic one. But either of these as Germanic? Nahhh, 'fraid not.

    But at least you fixed the second 'ist' in the title of the thread.
    Honestly! As if this typo detracted from the fundamentals of the discussion. Pretty petty imho, exit.


    Perhaps one day you will study further the true meaning of traditional cosmology.
    Well it is quite evident to me that SuuT has more than studied the true meaning of traditional Germanic cosmology. Question is have you?


    Frith...Aemma

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aemma View Post
    Hmm no, exit. That which I bolded is incorrect insofar as this is a discussion related to philosophy and worldviews within Germanic Heathenry; there is no element of "Oneness" within Germanic Heathenry in the sense that you have suggested at any rate.
    I've already made clear what I think about neopaganism which in a word can be summed up as counterfeit, and this includes everything that goes by the name "heathenry/ism."

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    I tend not to find a problem with the word "Heathenry" when it is used to describe a reconstructionist religion. I think you might judge a little hastily.

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    Senior Member Aemma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exit View Post
    I've already made clear what I think about neopaganism which in a word can be summed up as counterfeit, and this includes everything that goes by the name "heathenry/ism."
    Hmm it seems you like to cherry pick posts, exit.

    Granted you've made the above quite clear over time, exit, but you still manage to avoid my other questions when pressed. My post was a tad longer than these some 3 lines you've chosen to respond to, you must admit.

    How about going on a limb eh and answering them?

    Frith...Aemma

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aemma View Post
    Hmm it seems you like to cherry pick posts, exit.

    Granted you've made the above quite clear over time, exit, but you still manage to avoid my other questions when pressed. My post was a tad longer than these some 3 lines you've chosen to respond to, you must admit.

    How about going on a limb eh and answering them?

    Frith...Aemma
    When I said everything that goes under the name heathen/pagan is counterfeit I meant everything. No need take it point by point: I disagree with everything that pagans believe. There is not, nor has there ever been, a point to debating doctrine which pagans don't even believe in but who reduce everything to individual philosophy (is that not a rationalist-Protestant trait?) and then call it doctrine by another name. My knowledge is not mine; I took it as I received it, as others have done before me. An eternal teaching cannot be altered by debate and personal feeling, or because the number one scares one.

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    Senior Member Ashera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exit View Post
    ...My knowledge is not mine; I took it as I received it, as others have done before me. An eternal teaching cannot be altered by debate and personal feeling, or because the number one scares one.
    With his "belief" - "pragmatic belief" distinction Immanuel Kant started to specify two forms of "knowledge production" that finally led Charles Sanders Peirce to the formulation of a third form of logical reasoning (besides deduction and induction) that he termed "abduction".

    To make the distinction between belief and pragmatic belief more clear it is useful to explain deduction and abduction as opposition.

    While deduction uses a controlled environment - an experimental laboratory situation or a "black box" for example - with a detached outside observer (absolutist) to explain the "laws" of life and world from "above", abduction takes the look from within, the position of a living being moving itself through an unforseeable (at most probable) environment and learning about "rules" thereby.

    The first way leads to so-called "objective" propositions, the second way to "adjective" conclusions as individual achievements.

    Objective propositions lead to allocations and as such to alien determinations and prescriptions, while individual adjective conclusions need to be communicated and orchestrated.

    One is construction, the other is (co-)evolutive emergence.

    Ashera

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashera View Post
    With his "belief" - "pragmatic belief" distinction Immanuel Kant started to specify two forms of "knowledge production"
    Don't get me started...Kant and all of those modernist philosophers are much the same frauds that the neopagans are; in fact, the two go hand in hand.

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    Dearest Exit,

    You continue to make Absolutist assertions that are fraught with danger at the most rudimentary analysis from the Heathen, that is to say, non - Abrahamic, modus operondi; with no back-up for your position other than a latteral, and continuously circular, inconsistent 'because I said so' (i.e. the "Nanny-nanny-boo-boo" argument) vernacular/implication. One would think - and, justifiably so - that such a Weltanschauung would - in itself - possess a 'power' signifigant enough to dispell, immediately, with that to which you object (whatever that may be). And yet, as has been singled out to you (I feel [this is my diplomatic, and rather sterile - that is to say, un-Germanic] way of saying to your likes) as an accomodation, and a 'diplomatic' spirare), you continue - on the words of another - to cherry-pick posts, and attack the 'convienient'. Why...? It is a simple question, and yet, it seems to present a difficultly for you that is either 'beneath' you; or, insurmoutable... With the former case, if you would be so kind, please elucidate on the propositions you have put forth as Absolute; in the latter case, please explain how that which is Absolute is so remarkably obliterated by the most rudimentary of questions...While my critique has been kept in-check (in the academic sense) by our respected Hauken Hein, the fact remains that one is justified - by every wave and measure - to conclude that your perspective - as you, yourself have asserted - is not your own; but, and rather, the 'revealation' of esoteric knowing of the 'cosmogenic process'. Which, by impliction, lends itself to more questions as opposed to the 'answers' that you are implicative to possess. You demean Kant - why? You claim a knowledge of the multiverse that exceeds that of anyone herefore existing on Earth - Why? How? You caprisiously reject the Heathen 'lines drawn in-the-sand', as it were. - Why? Thrill us (the Royal, as opposed to the Priestly, 'We') with your accumen. I (we) are genuinely intererested: we seek only the truth; and merely question the means by which you have attained your Absolute. In other words, many of us meditate - and have yet come to vastly different 'conclusions'; many of us have spent much - if not the entirety - of our lives in contemplation - and yet the world is much more mysterious to us than you would have it. To this mystery, we ascribe namesakes. You have not only rejected these namesakes, but assert a mystifying tenure and proprietary right to dismiss them.


    These are things that are cause of concern to those of us who are not Jewish, Christian or Muslim. That is to say, Heathen.

    'We' still await an answer that is suited to more than Herr von 'Exit'. - if one does, indeed, exist.
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    You have by a wave of your magic wand turned the absolute into something it is not and then proceeded to oppose it, and oppose it first on psychological grounds and now on profane-rationalist-philosophical grounds, both of which have nothing to do with metaphysics.

    I must call attention to your signature which is a quote from Nietzsche, "The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species." Now it might be painfully obvious but the immoral man which Nietzscheans hold in high regard is a deceiver. You quote further, "I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage." This is sad. A debate or interaction with such a man would only be about inflicting pain, deception, and manipulation, not about truth and learning.
    Last edited by Hauke Haien; Friday, March 13th, 2009 at 01:49 PM. Reason: personal attacks

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