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Thread: The Ethics of Life Extension

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    The Ethics of Life Extension

    Hmm, has anyone thought of cryonics?

    Cryonics is the low-temperature preservation of humans and animals that can no longer be sustained by contemporary medicine until resuscitation may be possible in the future. Human cryopreservation is not currently reversible. In the United States, cryonics can only be legally performed on humans after pronounced legally dead. The rationale for cryonics is that the process may be reversible in the future if performed soon enough, and that cryopreserved people are not dead by the modern information-theoretic definition of death.

    Maybe in the future, when this technique becomes more available and affordable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    Hmm, has anyone thought of cryonics?

    Cryonics is the low-temperature preservation of humans and animals that can no longer be sustained by contemporary medicine until resuscitation may be possible in the future. Human cryopreservation is not currently reversible. In the United States, cryonics can only be legally performed on humans after pronounced legally dead. The rationale for cryonics is that the process may be reversible in the future if performed soon enough, and that cryopreserved people are not dead by the modern information-theoretic definition of death.

    Maybe in the future, when this technique becomes more available and affordable.
    I don't get why anyone would want to be frozen down (and potentially revived) after dying a natural or unnatural death in their 70s or 80s when they're basically slow walking skeletons with almost all of their bodily functions more or less seriously impaired . Seems pretty pointless and undesirable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    I don't get why anyone would want to be frozen down (and potentially revived) after dying a natural or unnatural death in their 70s or 80s when they're basically slow walking skeletons with almost all of their bodily functions more or less seriously impaired . Seems pretty pointless and undesirable.
    Yes, you're right, but it's very possible to die young, especially if you have a dangerous job. Maybe the ones who prefer cryonics could specify that if death occurs before age 50 let's say, their bodies are to undergo the procedure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    Hmm, has anyone thought of cryonics
    And wake up to one of two possible futures!?

    1) Idiocracy

    2)

    "Hi! Welcome back to the real world"
    Last edited by BeornWulfWer; Tuesday, December 9th, 2008 at 10:00 PM. Reason: .
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeornWulfWer View Post
    And wake up to one of two possible futures!?

    1) Idiocracy

    2)

    "Hi! Welcome back to the real world"
    The worldly situation is already bad as it is. If life in it isn't worth it, then we would all kill ourselves. Or maybe we're too cowardly. Who says it couldn't get better by the time we wake up, anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    Yes, you're right, but it's very possible to die young, especially if you have a dangerous job. Maybe the ones who prefer cryonics could specify that if death occurs before age 50 let's say, their bodies are to undergo the procedure.
    Yeah, but those signing up for it now are old decrepid billionairs .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    The worldly situation is already bad as it is. If life in it isn't worth it, then we would all kill ourselves. Or maybe we're too cowardly. Who says it couldn't get better by the time we wake up, anyway?
    Without wanting to derail your thread, but to me the whole premise of Cryogenics is distasteful and against the natural order of the universe.

    I believe the time you have is the time you are allocated to create your wave of reactions and to learn and achieve your soul evolving lessons.

    To have the notion of being reanimated further along the coil after your demise is simply abhorrent to me. Where would the soul come from? Would the soul wish to return to the same life after having learned its initial lesson and evolution? Would the life currently hosting the soul cease to exist? And the list of questions go on.

    I don't doubt the future may brighten with time. It may stagnate and this is the pinnacle of man, but a part of me doesn't feel that we should be exposed to witness that with the same eyes twice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeornWulfWer View Post
    Without wanting to derail your thread, but to me the whole premise of Cryogenics is distasteful and against the natural order of the universe.
    Distasteful is subjective and a lot of things we do today are "against the natural order or the universe". Resuscitation is one. Or artificial insemination, or you name it. Should we give those up because they're not included in the natural cycle? Don't think so.

    I believe the time you have is the time you are allocated to create your wave of reactions and to learn and achieve your soul evolving lessons.
    Thousands of years ago we had shorter lifespans, today we have longer ones thanks to modern medicine. Oh yeah, another one that's against the "natural order of the universe". There still are religious nutcases in this age, who are against treating cancer or other diseases because they believe it would interfere with "the time given by god". I'd like to believe we progressed though.

    To have the notion of being reanimated further along the coil after your demise is simply abhorrent to me. Where would the soul come from? Would the soul wish to return to the same life after having learned its initial lesson and evolution? Would the life currently hosting the soul cease to exist? And the list of questions go on.
    It would come from nowhere, as there's no such thing as a soul.

    I don't doubt the future may brighten with time. It may stagnate and this is the pinnacle of man, but a part of me doesn't feel that we should be exposed to witness that with the same eyes twice.
    Great, if you don't want to there's no reason to choose cryonics, but if someone wants to, it's their business.

    I don't care what happens with my body after death, by the way. Death is the cessation of existence, so what difference would it make to me? None.
    "Tradition doesn't mean holding on to the ashes, it means passing the torch."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachthimmel View Post
    Distasteful is subjective and a lot of things we do today are "against the natural order or the universe". Resuscitation is one. Or artificial insemination, or you name it. Should we give those up because they're not included in the natural cycle? Don't think so.
    Simple answer?

    1)Resuscitation: If you can't gather the strength to survive then your time is up. See you on the other side.

    2)Artificial insemination: Someone is telling you that you ain't good enough to procreate. Stop trying and enjoy the fruitless practice.

    You resuscitate ten people on one day, you extend the lives of those who are not meant to exist. You have ten more people to suffer with for the mere pleasure of extolling some seminal worship at the altar of modern medicine. And for what? So you can cough and wheeze your way through your sons graduation day, or sit in the corner as some freak show for the new generation to admonish and ridicule for being weak and scared to face the ultimate destiny.

    I would rather die with my dignity than my loved ones sympathy.

    As for artificial insemination, if you wish to have the hand of humanities flawed logic guide your progress through life then all the more bully for you.

    I'd rather have the offspring from a woman who can survive the struggles that destiny can throw at her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachthimmel View Post
    Thousands of years ago we had shorter lifespans, today we have longer ones thanks to modern medicine. Oh yeah, another one that's against the "natural order of the universe". There still are religious nutcases in this age, who are against treating cancer or other diseases because they believe it would interfere with "the time given by god". I'd like to believe we progressed though.
    Have we progressed? Our fear of facing our truth and destiny has made us weak and shambolic compared to our ancestors.

    I'm not afraid of death, but merely the way I die.

    My life is a lesson for the following to comprehend and to strengthen their paths along this path. My ultimate avoidance of death is but a mere charade to my self annotated fearlessness and honour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachthimmel View Post
    It would come from nowhere, as there's no such thing as a soul.
    You have a soul. If you wish me to expand on why that is so, please do ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachthimmel View Post
    Great, if you don't want to there's no reason to choose cryonics, but if someone wants to, it's their business.
    I won't deny anyone their choices, but bear in mind that choosing a prolonged life is akin to crying in fear as the enemy drives its ultimatum into your body.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachthimmel View Post
    I don't care what happens with my body after death, by the way. Death is the cessation of existence, so what difference would it make to me? None.
    Perhaps, but honour and dignity is something you will learn with time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeornWulfWer View Post
    Simple answer?

    1)Resuscitation: If you can't gather the strength to survive then your time is up. See you on the other side.

    2)Artificial insemination: Someone is telling you that you ain't good enough to procreate. Stop trying and enjoy the fruitless practice.
    3) Cancer or any other life-threatening illness: Someone has given you a deadly disease because they want you to die. Should sick people not treat themselves because they're meant to die?

    But let's say there is indeed someone out there who arranges these things as they like... mankind has proven to be innovative and outsmart that someone. Play against destiny.

    You resuscitate ten people on one day, you extend the lives of those who are not meant to exist. You have ten more people to suffer with for the mere pleasure of extolling some seminal worship at the altar of modern medicine. And for what? So you can cough and wheeze your way through your sons graduation day, or sit in the corner as some freak show for the new generation to admonish and ridicule for being weak and scared to face the ultimate destiny.
    For the sake of science. For the sake of learning new things about the human body and its microbiology.

    I would rather die with my dignity than my loved ones sympathy.
    That's you but not everyone thinks like you. Supporting life extension doesn't mean that everyone should be forced to extend theirs.

    As for artificial insemination, if you wish to have the hand of humanities flawed logic guide your progress through life then all the more bully for you.

    I'd rather have the offspring from a woman who can survive the struggles that destiny can throw at her.
    Being artificially inseminated can well mean she can survive the struggles, she just gets a hand at it. You can't survive alone on an island without a survival kit.

    Have we progressed? Our fear of facing our truth and destiny has made us weak and shambolic compared to our ancestors.
    There's no such thing as destiny, our lives are what we make them to be. I can change my "destiny" easily by changing a decision and so on. I can model my life the way I want it.

    I'm not afraid of death, but merely the way I die.
    Same here, but why should cryonics be used merely for selfish reasons? If we had a modern day Kant or Mozart, preserving them until science finds a method to resuscitate them would benefit mankind.

    You have a soul. If you wish me to expand on why that is so, please do ask.
    I don't believe I do, but I think this merits its own topic. In another thread perhaps.

    I won't deny anyone their choices, but bear in mind that choosing a prolonged life is akin to crying in fear as the enemy drives its ultimatum into your body.
    Fear isn't always a bad thing. If we fear our enemies and what they could do to our people, but we fight them and prevent them from doing damage to us, then we succeed.

    Perhaps, but honour and dignity is something you will learn with time.
    I have both, they just don't coincide with your world view but that's not something that really worries me.
    "Tradition doesn't mean holding on to the ashes, it means passing the torch."
    - Thomas Morus (1478-1535)

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