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Thread: How Semitic is Christianity?

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    Senior Member Teuton's Avatar
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    How Semitic is Christianity?

    I've been wondering this question for a while.

    Of course, Christianity's origins is Semitic, but Christianity didn't flourish in the Semetic countries, instead, it flourished in Europe.

    I believe, although Christianity's roots are Semitic, it's European influence cannot be ignored, most Christian festivals usually have a Pagan counterpart. The tradition is all European.

    In essence, I think Christianity is veering towards being more of a European religion than a Semitic one. It started in the Semitic countries, but it's basically European.



    What are your views on the matter?

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    Senior Member Psychonaut's Avatar
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    I'd say that the window dressings of Christianity, and Catholicism in particular, are very European, but at it's core it is a Middle Eastern religion. Everything from the monotheism, to the command ethic and shell-like cosmology is intimately tied to both the Semitic language family and the desert landscape. This issue is treated extensively in Oswald Spengler's The Decline of the West and Alain de Benoist's On Being a Pagan.
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    Christianity was definetely a semitic religion, originally.

    Sure, it has been greatly Europeanized, but the opposite also holds: European nations have received a lot of semitic influences from Christianity.

    Where is the Germanic free spirit, the love for nature and the dynamic, everchanging thought and restlesness of mind, in a religion that teaches you to stagnate, to take everything as they say it is and to act and think like a 'slave' of God, treat women as slaves and Nature as object of consumption?

    Where is the respective Hellenic free spirit and restlesness that led to groundbreaks in philosophy, astronomy and mathematics?
    Modern Greeks think and act as slaves, mostly because of hardcore Orthodox influences.
    The theocratic society that Greece has become, is not much different from the Islamic countries of the East --and yes, the majority of modern ways are predominantly of semitic origin.

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    I‘d like to make an example of Easter here..

    Eástre, the Goddess of Spring
    The Saxon goddess Eástre, or Ostara, goddess of spring, whose name has survived in the English word Easter, is also identical with Frigga, for she too is considered goddess of the earth, or rather of Nature’s resurrection after the long death of winter.

    This gracious goddess was so dearly loved by the old Teutons, that even after Christianity had been introduced they stilt retained a pleasant recollection of her, utterly refused to have her degraded to the rank of a demon, like many of their other divinities, and transferred her name to their great Christian feast. It had long been customary to celebrate this day by the exchange of presents of colored eggs, for the egg is the type of the beginning of life; so the early Christians continued to observe this rule, declaring, however, that the egg is also symbolical of the resurrection. In various parts of Germany, stone altars can still be seen, which are known as Easter-stones, because they were dedicated to the fair goddess Ostara. They were crowned with flowers by the young people, who danced gaily around them by the light of great bonfires, — a species of popular games kept up until the middle of the present century, in spite of the priests’ denunciations and of the repeatedly published edicts against them.

    Myths of Northern Lands
    Now, we can go on and on with “comparative mythology” and say that the coming of Spring is like Jesus being resurrected. But, with Jesus “dying for our sins” a whole new book is opened. Instead of our Holy-days being, just, in tune with nature, they have taken on a whole new meaning of sin and eternal redemption/damnation. No longer is Spring celebrated as a return of things growing after a hard Winter, with Easter bunnies running around again and laying eggs, but now with Jesus dying for our sins on Good Friday and being resurrected on Easter Sunday, so that Adam’s eating of the apple in the Garden of Eden, with it’s immortality, can be (for)given again to those righteous enough, who believe and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their saviour.

    Since, I’m thinking of apples, I offer this quote of good ole’ Varg’s which goes with the Nietzsche one to follow..

    Raven Te Adjutbitur

    A heathen who finds a large apple tree goes over to it, climbs it, eats his fill, and takes as many apples as he can carry further on his journey. A Christian goes to the tree, sits under it, and asks "god" for the apples to fall down in his sweaty arms. After awhile, when the apples are overripe, they fall down, right in the apathetic Christian's arms. The Christian praises "the lord" for giving him food, not at least he takes this as proof that "god" exists and is with him. He gave probably the apples to him? The problem for the Christian is that sometimes he dies of hunger before the apples fall down in his cold arms, or that the heathen plucks and eats all the apples before some of them fall down to the un-enterprising Christian bum who sits there waiting for "god's will" to be complete. This irritates the Christian bum endlessly. And since there are 20 times as many Christian bums than there is heathens, then they can attack the heathen and hold him again so that he cannot climb up in the tree after the apples. They can coerce him to do so for them. Sit and wait for "god" to give them apples, or to die of hunger if "god" means that they have not earned it. "God's ways are inscrutable." If the heathen sneaks up in the tree at night and takes some of the apples while the Christian sleeps, the Christian puts him in prison. He breaks the law, "god's" law which they are representative of, actually they found the law because it is "god's will" and they attend to god's interests, obviously. They have found a law which makes you a law breaker if you deny this also, to violate "god's will" is blasphemy and blasphemy is punishable by law. This is a characterized example of the Jewish -Christian mentality, only that heretic means "one who dares to think for themselves" says rather much about this funny Jewish religion! Take their shirt and hold it for themselves, we will not have it, and we won't rather have them. Become alive and feel their nature, first then they will be able to say that they live, they will become worthy people! Crush Christianity and all it stands for, we are Norwegian, not slaves for the Jews! The largest warriors live as an arrow, not a target. The arrow goes through the room, directs, quickly, lively and in motion (it has a direction and a purpose). A target stands in silence, still and only waits for something to happen. The heathen purpose.

    -Vargsmal
    To attribute eternal/perpetual return of the seasons with a moral tone does not enter my mind nor did it my ancestors…

    Would anyone care to learn something about the way in which ideals are manufactured? Does anyone have the nerve?…Well then, go ahead! There’s a chink through which you can peek into this murky shop. But wait just a moment, Mr. Foolhardy; your eyes must grow accustomed to the fickle light…all right, tell me what’s going on in there, audacious fellow; now I am the one who is listening.

    “I can’t see a thing, but I hear all the more. There’s a low, cautious whispering in every nook and corner. I have a notion these people are lying. All the sounds are sugary and soft. No doubt you were right; they are transmuting weakness into merit.”

    “Go on”

    “Impotence, which cannot retaliate, into kindness; pusillanimity into humility; submission before those one hates into obedience to One of whom they say that he has commanded this submission--they call him God. The inoffensiveness of the weak, his cowardice, his ineluctable standing and waiting at doors, are being given honorific titles such as patience; to be unable to avenge oneself is called to be unwilling to avenge oneself--even forgiveness (“for they know not what they do--we alone know what they do.”)
    Also there’s some talk of loving one’s enemy--accompanied by much sweat.”

    “Go on”

    “I’m sure they are quite miserable, all these whisperers and smalltime counterfeiters, even thought they huddle close together for warmth. But they tell me that this very misery is the sign of their election by God, that one beats the dogs one loves best, that this misery is perhaps also a preparation, a test, a kind of training, perhaps even more than that: something for which eventually they will be compensated with tremendous interest--in gold? No, in happiness. They call this bliss.”

    “Go on”

    “Now they tell me that not only are they better than the mighty of this earth, whose spittle they must lick ( not from fear--by no means--but because God commands us to honor our superiors), but they are even better off, or at least they will be better off someday. But I’ve had all I can stand. The smell is too much for me. This shop where they manufacture ideals seems to me to stink of lies.”

    “But just a moment. You haven’t told me anything about the greatest feat of these black magicians, who precipitate the white milk of loving-kindness out of every kind of blackness. Haven’t you noticed their most consummate sleight of hand, their boldest, finest, most brilliant trick? Just watch! These vermin, full of vindictive hatred, what are they brewing out of their of poisons? Have you ever heard vengeance and hatred mentioned? Would you ever guess, if you only listened to their words, that these are men bursting with hatred?”

    “I see what you mean. I’ll open my ears again--and stop my nose. Now I can make out what they seem to have been saying all along ‘We, the good ones, are also the just ones.’ They call the thing they seek not retribution but the triumph of justice; the thing they hate is not their enemy, by no means--they hate injustice, ungodliness; the thing they hope for and believe in is not vengeance, the sweet exultation of vengeance (‘sweeter than honey’ as Homer said) but ‘the triumph of God’ who is just, over the godless’; what remains to them to love on this earth is not their brothers in hatred, but what they call their ‘brother in love’-- all who are good and just.”

    “And what do they call that which comforts them in all their suffering--their phantasmagoria of future bliss?”

    “Do I hear correctly? They call it Judgment Day, the coming of their kingdom, the ‘Kingdom of God.’ Meanwhile they live in ‘faith,’ in ‘love,’ in ‘hope.’”

    “Stop! I’ve heard enough.”

    From The Birth of Tragedy & the Genealogy of Morals translated my Francis Golffing..pages 180-182
    Morality is not handed down from “on high“, but comes from one’s own with one’s own ( meaning community’s ) heart. And, to take a Holy-day and pervert it to such an extreme is a shame, not to mention, in no way European, let alone Germanic.

    Later,
    -Lyfing

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    Lyfing
    Morality is not handed down from “on high“, but comes from one’s own with one’s own ( meaning community’s ) heart. And, to take a Holy-day and pervert it to such an extreme is a shame, not to mention, in no way European, let alone Germanic.
    Well you can call anything Morality.
    But it helps if it lines up with Objective Reality.

    Christianity is definitely Semitic in origin. But the start of Christianity as we know it started in 313, at the Edict De Milion. From that point on it was mostly a mixture of Semitic background and certain aspects of paganism which Europeans did not want to give up.

    The Irony here is that Christians are pagans from a Jewish/Muslim perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teuton View Post
    What are your views on the matter?
    They are in agreement.






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    Senior Member Maelstrom's Avatar
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    I have always held the belief that Christianity was as a malleable piece of steel, moulded by European ideas until it cooled; hard, before being turned back towards the East as a weapon.

    I am no expert on the subject at hand though I would find it reasonable to say that to believe that Roman, or even ancient Germanic Christianity, resembled anything of today's would be utter folly.

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    Senior Member hildolf's Avatar
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    A semitic religion suger-coated with a bit of paganism, is still a semitic religion.

    Regardless of the sugercoating I found it a bitter pill to swallow, so didn't.

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    It's hard to say, as Christianity has been the 'only game in town' for Europe for over 1500 years and in Germanic countries for over 1000 years. It seems more like they copied semitic trappings onto European pagan religions than vice versa.

    Most of the 'desert oriented' stuff was never used in the first place-the dietary restrictions, head covering and feet washing, all the regulations dealing with transient herds of animals.

    Catholicism is quite similar to pagan religions, not really a monotheistic religion, with a 'father god' (Jesus), 'mother god' (Mary), and assorted lesser gods which are often prayed to directly and have their own holy day (saints).

    The 'apples' fable from Varg doesn't really jive with the reality of life under Christianity: a Christian who advocated sitting around waiting for apples to fall would probably have been burnt alive as a 'heretic' in the middle ages or denounced as a 'communist' in the mid-20th century. Until very recent times, at least in Germanic countries, common folklore which was characterized as 'Christian' were such phrases as "Protestant work ethic", "God helps those who help themselves", and "idle hands make a Devil's play"

    Christianity does incorporate some elements of Judaism which were designed for a more urban society (codified written system of laws) and an ethnically/racially contested world (all the racial stuff in the old testament), but it is likely that a European/Germanic pagan religion would have evolved in this direction anyways as their world changed, they became more sedentary, urbanized, and technologically advanced, and their contact with other cultures increased.

    The movement towards a more ethereal/spiritual god concept instead of the anthropomorphic figures found in pagan mythology was also likely to happen as understanding of the natural world increased. You can prove that tides are caused by the gravitational pull of the moon instead of the ocean god, or that sunrise and sunset are the result of movement by galactic bodies, but a magical invisible omnipresent spirit which sometimes 'acts in mysterious ways' is difficult or impossible to disprove. "We looked under this here volcano, and no sign of any giant mountain god living under there" vs "you can't see or detect him in any way...but he's there alright!"

    Additionally, many or all elements of the semitic religions are alleged to have been copied from Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, or Hindu sources, and these in turn are alleged to have been derived from ancient nordic sources.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    Most of the 'desert oriented' stuff was never used in the first place-the dietary restrictions, head covering and feet washing, all the regulations dealing with transient herds of animals.
    Perhaps they didn't import the desert clothing and practices, but Christian/Jewish/Muslim cosmology does seem to have been shaped by the desert landscape, just as European pagan cosmologies were shaped by the forests. This is the reason that Middle Eastern cosmologies purport that the Earth is a flat disk covered by a hemispherical dome; it is a natural expansion of the perspective that the desert provides.
    "Ocean is more ancient than the mountains, and freighted with the memories and the dreams of Time."
    -H.P. Lovecraft

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