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Thread: Odin As Progenitor

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    not aesir-baijan?

    Quote Originally Posted by georgepohl View Post
    I am convinced that Odin lived in the 200s AD at Asgard,
    which was located somewhere in Scandinavia.
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.p...648#post601648

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    Looking at Wuotan or any other deity as the mythic progenitor of your Folk is a very powerful story, but is not one to be confused as having actually happened. If we were to take all of these seriously then my wife would be descended from Freyr on her Danish Yngling side, and I would be the spawn of Merovech's father, the Quinotaur:



    What makes a myth valuable and true is not that it actually took place at some historical time, rather it is that it speaks to us on a level that science and history cannot.
    I like your comment about myth. I agree.

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    Most interesting topic

    The Anglo-Saxon Chronicles (ASC) state that all Anglo-Saxon kings have Woden as their common ancestor. Here are the relevant entries :

    AD 449 : This year Marcian and Valentinian assumed the empire, and reigned seven winters. In their days Hengest and Horsa, invited by Wurtgern, king of the Britons to his assistance, landed in Britain in a place that is called Ipwinesfleet; first of all to support the Britons, but they afterwards fought against them. The king directed them to fight against the Picts; and they did so; and obtained the victory wheresoever they came.

    They then sent to the Angles, and desired them to send more assistance. They described the worthlessness of the Britons, and the richness of the land. They then sent them greater support. Then came the men from three powers of Germany; the Old Saxons, the Angles, and the Jutes. From the Jutes are descended the men of Kent, the Wightwarians (that is, the tribe that now dwelleth in the Isle of Wight), and that kindred in Wessex that men yet call the kindred of the Jutes.

    From the Old Saxons came the people of Essex and Sussex and Wessex. From Anglia, which has ever since remained waste between the Jutes and the Saxons, came the East Angles, the Middle Angles, the Mercians, and all of those north of the Humber. Their leaders were two brothers, Hengest and Horsa; who were the sons of Wihtgils; Wihtgils was the son of Witta, Witta of Wecta, Wecta of Woden. From this Woden arose all our royal kindred, and that of the Southumbrians also.

    AD 547 : This year Ida began his reign; from whom first arose the royal kindred of the Northumbrians. Ida was the son of Eoppa, Eoppa of Esa, Esa of Ingwy, Ingwy of Angenwit, Angenwit of Alloc, Alloc of Bennoc, Bennoc of Brand, Brand of Balday, Balday of Woden. Woden of Fritholaf, Fritholaf of Frithowulf, Frithowulf of Finn, Finn of Godolph, Godolph of Geata. Ida reigned twelve years. He built Bamburgh-Castle, which was first surrounded with a hedge, and afterwards with a wall.

    AD 560 : This year Ceawlin undertook the government of the West-Saxons; and Ella, on the death of Ida, that of the Northumbrians; each of whom reigned thirty winters. Ella was the son of Iff, Iff of Usfrey, Usfrey of Wilgis, Wilgis of Westerfalcon, Westerfalcon of Seafowl, Seafowl of Sebbald, Sebbald of Sigeat, Sigeat of Swaddy, Swaddy of Seagirt, Seagar of Waddy, Waddy of Woden, Woden of Frithowulf.

    AD 597 : This year began Ceolwulf to reign over the West- Saxons; and he constantly fought and conquered, either with the Angles, or the Welsh, or the Picts, or the Scots. He was the son of Cutha, Cutha of Cynric, Cynric of Cerdic, Cerdic of Elesa, Elesa of Gewis, Gewis of Wye, Wye of Frewin, Frewin of Frithgar, Frithgar of Brand, Brand of Balday, and Balday of Woden.

    AD 626 : Penda was the son of Wybba, Wybba of Creoda, Creoda of Cynewald, Cynewald of Cnebba, Cnebba of Icel, Icel of Eomer, Eomer of Angelthew, Angelthew of Offa, Offa of Wearmund, Wearmund of Whitley, Whitley of Woden.

    AD 755 : Offa was the son of Thingferth, Thingferth of Enwulf, Enwulf of Osmod, Osmod of Eawa, Eawa of Webba, Webba of Creoda, Creoda of Cenwald, Cenwald of Cnebba, Cnebba of Icel, Icel of Eomer, Eomer of Angelthew, Angelthew of Offa, Offa of Wermund, Wermund of Witley, Witley of Woden.

    AD 854 : And they were the sons of Cenred, Cenred of Ceolwald, Ceolwald of Cutha, Cutha of Cuthwin, Cuthwin of Ceawlin, Ceawlin of Cynric, Cynric of Creoda, Creoda of Cerdic, Cerdic of Elesa, Elesa of Esla, Esla of Gewis, Gewis of Wig, Wig of Freawine, Freawine of Frithugar, Frithugar of Brond, Brond of Balday, Balday of Woden, Woden of Frithuwald, Frithuwald of Freawine, Freawine of Frithuwulf, Frithuwulf of Finn, Finn of Godwulf, Godwulf of Geat, Geat of Taetwa, Taetwa of Beaw, Beaw of Sceldwa, Sceldwa of Heremod, Heremod of Itermon,
    Itermon of Hathra, Hathra of Hwala, Hwala of Bedwig, Bedwig of Sceaf.


    So, according to the ASC, Woden would have been a king of the early Angles, with about 15 ancestors listed. Here is the list of his ancestors :

    Sceaf
    Bedwig
    Hwala
    Hrathra
    Itermon
    Heremod
    Sceldwa
    Beaw
    Tætwa
    Geata
    Godwulf
    Finn
    Friþuwulf
    Woden


    And here are the children of Woden (listed in the ASC again) :

    Wægdæg (Wecta)
    Bældæg (Balder)
    Wihtlæg
    Caser
    Winta

    As you can see there is no Thor in this list but the meaning of Woden, Wægdæg, Bældæg and Wihtlæg in old English are very interesting.

    Woden = fury, madness
    Wægdæg = rainy day or water day
    Bældæg = shining day or fire day
    Wihtlæg = being with legs (leg of the being, or creature)

    It seems these names all have a symbolical meaning. We have a symbol for fury, for water, for fire and for a human. Caser is a direct reference to Caesar of course. For Winta I don't know but if someone has an idea please post it. Winta could come from Windan which means to wind, curl, twist, maybe a reference to air. This would make sense : Woden's direct children would have names associated with elemental powers. Anyway, whether there once was a real Woden/Odin is extremely difficult to say. But Snorri Sturluson says Odin had more sons :

    -Wihtlæg (Anglia)
    -Caser
    -Bældæg (Westphalia or West Saxony)
    -Forseta (Frisia)
    -Brond
    -Wægdæg (East Saxony)
    -Garwendel (Jutland)
    -Scyld (Hrethgothland)
    -Sæming (Norway)

    He gives very interesting details too :

    "Woden knew the art of prophecy, and with it he learnt that these sons would settle and rule over the Northlands. He put his brothers Weoh and Willa in charge of Esageard, and rode north with the gods. Wherever they journeyed, men would say great things about them. They did not pause in their travels before they came to the land that is now called Saxony. Here Woden remained for a long time, and he ruled the country far and wide. He set seven of his sons to defend the land. One of them was Wadolgeat, and he ruled over the Angles. His son was Wihtlæg, who had two sons; one was Wehta, who begat Witta, who begat Wihtgils, who begat the brothers Hengest and Horsa. From Hengest descend the kings of Kent and Saxony. The other son was Wærmund, whose son was Offa from whom the kings of Mercia descend.
    Another son was Casere, and his son was Tætman, from whom later descended the royal line of East Anglia. Woden's third son was Bældæg, who ruled over what is now Westphalia. His sons were Forseta, who ruled over the Frisians, and Brand, whose son was Gewis, from whom descended both the royal line of Wessex and the kings of Bernicia. The fourth son was Wægdæg, who ruled eastern Saxony. His son was Sigegar, from whom descend the kings of Deira. Fifth was Garwendel, who ruled over the Jutes, until they came under the sway of the Angles. From all of these come many and great races."

    "Woden rode further northward, and came at last to the land named Hrethgothland, where he conquered all who resisted him. In Hrethgothland he set his sixth son, who was named Scyld. His son was Frealaf, whose descendants were the Scyldings, who were the Dane-kings, and the land that was then called Hrethgothland is now Denmark. Woden took up his abode in Odense, in the island of Fyn. He sent one of his number, the goddess Gyfun, north across the sound to explore the countries beyond, and she discovered the land we now call Sweden. Here she met Gylfa, the giant who ruled these lands, and he gave her a ploughgate of land in return for a night's entertainment. Then she travelled further into the north, coming to Eotenhame, the land of the giants, where she bore four sons to a giant.

    With her magic, she transformed these sons into oxen, yoked them to a plough, and ploughed out the land into the sea opposite Odense. The name given to this land is Zealand, and afterwards this was where she settled. Woden's son Scyld married her, and they dwelt at Lejre. Where the land was ploughed out in Sweden there is now a lake called Laage, and it cane be seen that this was where Zealand came from, since the inlets of the lake correspond with the peninsulas of the island. From Gyfun Woden had learnt that the land in the east was prosperous, and he went there, and Gylfa made peace with him, thinking that he could not resist the gods. But Woden and Gylfa often tricked each other and cast spells and enchantments against each other, but the gods won.

    Woden dwelt beside Lake Mælare, in the town now called Old Sigtuna, where he erected a large temple where sacrifices were made by the laws of the Ese. He ruled over the whole of the surrounding district, and it was called Sigtuna. He also gave domains to all his fellow gods. Finally, he rode northwards to the shores of the ocean, where he set his seventh son in the land now known as Norway. The son's name was Sæming, and the kings of Norway are descended from him."


    The part which deals with the Island of Fyn is also important because there are several places in Fyn which are directly related to Woden, even today. Among them are Odense ("Odin's shrine") and Gudme ("God's home"). From Wikipedia :

    "In Gudme, Denmark two similar halls were excavated in 1993. Of the so called "Gudme Kongehal" (Kings hall) only the post holes were found. The larger of the two was 47 meters long and 8 meters wide. Gold items found near the site have been dated between 200 and 550. The iron age graveyards of Møllegårdsmarken and Brudager are close by. The halls may have been part of a regional religious and political center serving as royal feasting places with Lundeborg serving as harbor."


    Finally there's the Gullgubber : from Wiki again :

    "Gullgubber (Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈɡʉlɡʉbəɾ]) or guldgubber, guldgubbar (Swedish, Danish) are art-objects, amulets, or offerings found in Scandinavia and dating to early medieval times. They consist of thin pieces of beaten gold (occasionally silver), usually between 1 and 2 sq. cm. in size, usually stamped with a motif, and are the oldest examples of toreutics in Northern Europe.

    The word gullgubbe means "little old man of gold" and is taken from a report published in 1791 by Nils Henrik Sjöborg,[1] in which he said that villagers in Ravlunda, Scania who found them in the dunes called them guldgubbar.[2] Approximately 3,000 gullgubber have been found, from approximately 30 sites in Norway, Sweden, and the greatest number in Denmark. No fewer than 2,350 were found at the settlement of Sorte Muld on the Danish island of Bornholm, while over 100 were found at Lundeborg, near Gudme on the Danish island of Funen, and most recently 122 at Uppåkra, Scania, Sweden."

    Many of these Gullgubber depict a man with a raven riding a horse which could be interpreted as Odin himself. Now whether or not Odin really existed, we will probably never know unless his burial site is found (if it exists...) What is really strange is why on earth would Christian monks say in the ASC that all the English kings had Woden as their common ancestor ? Religious people hated all these pagan symbols. Why would they add Woden to the genealogy of English kings if it is a human invention ? It makes no sense to me but there must be a reason.

    Woden could have been a real king which was later considered a god but no Roman historian has ever described a king called Woden. One last important point : the Trojan origin of Woden is absurd. Almost every single royal bloodline in Europe was linked, at some stage, to the mighty Trojans during the middle-age but this was just a politically motivated invention. And linking Woden to the semitic Noah is another sinister religious joke (see above the last ASC reference).

  4. #14
    From Julius Evola's Revolt against the Modern World, chapter 6:

    [...] only the sacrificial rite, which was its [i.e. the brahmana caste] privilege, determined its higer status vis-à-vis other castes. By permeating those who performed them with some kind of dreadful and beneficial psychic power, the rite and the sacrifice allowed the brahmana to partake of the same nature as the evoked powers; not only would this quality abide in that person forever, making him directly superior to and revered and feared by others, but it would also be transmitted to his descendants.

    [...]

    In China as well as in Greece and ancient Rome, the patriciate was essentially characterized by the possession and by the practice of those rites that were connected to the divine power emanating from the founder of a family.

    [...]

    [...] the true principle of the differentiation between patricians and plebeians was that the ancestors of the plebeian and of the slave were not "divine ancestors" (divi parentes) like the ancestors of the patrician stocks. No transcendent quality or "form" entrusted to a rigorous and secret ritual tradition was transmitted to them through the blood. The plebeians lacked that power through which the members of the aristocracy could directly celebrate their own cults or be members of the priestly class (as was the case in the ancient classical world, in ancient Northern and Germanic races, in the Far East and so on).

    [...]

    We find the supernatural conception of the aristocracy also in ancient Teutonic traditions, not only because in these traditions every leader was at the same time the high priest of his people and of his lands, but also because claiming as an ancestor a divine being was enough to separate a family from all the others; a king was then chosen exclusively from among the members of these privileged families. This is why the king enjoyed a different dignity from that anjoyed, for instance, by a military leader (dux or heritzogo) who was occasionally appointed in military situations on the basis of his recognized individual talents.
    The interpretation of Mythical descendance as biological descendance is just silly.

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    My name is Michael, and I am many times decended from Odin, I am a decendant of the royal lines of many northern european countrys. My norwegian ancestors count Odin umong their progeniters, and so do my Sweedish ancestors, and my English ancestors, and my danish ancestors!

    this is an awful lot of evidence that Odin was in fact a man.

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    Sorry but, in older times it was pretty common for royal houses to put forward the claim of one or more divine ancestors to strengthen their claim to the throne. Same goes for the Pharaohs and the imperial house of Japan.
    The sense of honor is of so fine and delicate a nature that
    it is only to be met with in minds which are naturally noble or
    cultivated by good examples and a refined education.
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    Yes, but the lineage is backed up by many making the claim.

    Hengest[first king of kent] claimed to be a decendant of Odin, and so did my Danish ancestors, and my Norwegian ones, and my Sweedish ones.[it's not like they had a conspiracy to tell the world they were decended from the same man] why do all the claims match?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
    The interpretation of Mythical descendance as biological descendance is just silly.
    Indeed.

    Only those of a particularly materialistic mindset would interpret spiritual descendance to be synonymous with biological ancestry.
    These same people would reduce us only to merely intelligent apes, denying the recognition of macrocosm that defines us as beings.

    The name "Odin" is a derivative of a proto-Germanic word meaning something akin to "fury", "inspiration", or "heat" (in the sense of ritual austerities, compare with Sanskrit tapas). For a king to claim Odin as divine ancestor is for a king to embrace the motivating, creative force that Odin is representative of, and define this as the element making him worthy of rule.
    To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage. - Eliphas Lévi

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    There is nothing fancifull about it!

    Jesus was a human, and we all know how that turned out!

    The fact that you don't beleive it matters not!

    Odin was in fact a man. A man who embodied the spirit of our Folk!

    And this is the reason for his being deified!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwolf View Post
    Jesus was a human, and we all know how that turned out!
    And yet the concept of a "Christ" predates the supposed existence of the rabbi Yeshua, and comes from a completely different part of the world.
    But that's beside the point.

    I would wonder what motivation one might have for claiming the literal, biological existence of, and descendance from, a God.

    If I had little else to be proud of in the way of personal accomplishment I too might claim a God as my literal ancestor.
    To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage. - Eliphas Lévi

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