Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Christianity, Paganism and Values

  1. #1
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    Monday, March 16th, 2009 @ 05:21 PM
    Ethnicity
    Swedish
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Sweden Sweden
    Gender
    Family
    Single
    Politics
    Anarch
    Religion
    Pagan Yogi
    Posts
    61
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Christianity, Paganism and Values

    I don´t care much for the monotheist book religions. They have a long history of persecution, intolerance, fanaticism and a general rigidity. The christians showed their idea of "love" very early, for example when a christian mob flayed Hyphatia alive in a church and then burned her. The history of christianity is full of actions like that. And so is Islams history.

    As you can see, I call myself a pagan. Its become possible to do that again in Sweden, but thats only the last decades. Paganism have actually survived all this time in stories and traditions among the farmers. Of course not in the same form as it had 1000 years ago, things always change. But there are certain values, especially the relation to nature, where you can see it. Many Swedes have an almost religious relation to nature, and I would say thats very pagan.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Fafne For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last Online
    Monday, April 26th, 2010 @ 04:05 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Gender
    Posts
    646
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    I don´t care much for the monotheist book religions. They have a long history of persecution, intolerance, fanaticism and a general rigidity. The christians showed their idea of "love" very early, for example when a christian mob flayed Hyphatia alive in a church and then burned her. The history of christianity is full of actions like that. And so is Islams history.
    Violence and destruction is a part of every tradition's history. If they're not criticized for being violent then they're criticized for being pacifist--you just can't win.

    As you can see, I call myself a pagan. Its become possible to do that again in Sweden, but thats only the last decades.
    Are you aware that pagan is a derogatory term?

  4. #3
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    Monday, March 16th, 2009 @ 05:21 PM
    Ethnicity
    Swedish
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Sweden Sweden
    Gender
    Family
    Single
    Politics
    Anarch
    Religion
    Pagan Yogi
    Posts
    61
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Violence and destruction is a part of every tradition's history. If they're not criticized for being violent then they're criticized for being pacifist--you just can't win.
    What I said was not so much about the violence, it was about the intolerance, pettiness and vulgarity shown by christians from the beginning. "If you can´t understand them, burn them."

    Are you aware that pagan is a derogatory term?
    Yes, but an insult from the vulgar isn´t very insulting. I use it with pride.

  5. #4
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last Online
    Monday, April 26th, 2010 @ 04:05 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Gender
    Posts
    646
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Christianity, Paganism and Values

    What I said was not so much about the violence, it was about the intolerance, pettiness and vulgarity shown by christians from the beginning. "If you can´t understand them, burn them."
    But it is the pagans who didn't understand. And what people seem to overlook is that the pagan Romans were the first to kill Christians, not the other way around, and the Romans also killed alot of Northern Europeans.

    Yes, but an insult from the vulgar isn´t very insulting. I use it with pride
    Pride is said to be the worst of sins.

  6. #5
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    Monday, March 16th, 2009 @ 05:21 PM
    Ethnicity
    Swedish
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Sweden Sweden
    Gender
    Family
    Single
    Politics
    Anarch
    Religion
    Pagan Yogi
    Posts
    61
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exit View Post
    But it is the pagans who didn't understand. And what people seem to overlook is that the pagan Romans were the first to kill Christians, not the other way around, and the Romans also killed alot of Northern Europeans.
    Its not the killing that is the problem. People have always killed each other. The romans killed a lot of goths and people from other northern tribes and the norterners killed a lot of romans. In the end they sacked Rome itself.
    Like i said its the pettiness and intolerance shown by christianity again and again throughout history that I dislike. Its all very clear from the case of Hypathia. If you need more examples, I´ll say that a christian mob also killed the last platonic philosopher from the academy. Giodano Bruno was burned on the stake by the christians. Many of the runemasters on Iceland was burned by the christians in the 17:th century etc etc etc.

    Pride is said to be the worst of sins.
    Thats a christian sentiment. There are no sins for pagans. Except perhaps humility.

    Pride is a virtue according to Aristotle:

    http://www.bu.edu/english/levine/Aristotle.htm

  7. #6
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last Online
    Monday, April 26th, 2010 @ 04:05 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Gender
    Posts
    646
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Fafne View Post
    Its not the killing that is the problem. People have always killed each other. The romans killed a lot of goths and people from other northern tribes and the norterners killed a lot of romans. In the end they sacked Rome itself.
    Like i said its the pettiness and intolerance shown by christianity again and again throughout history that I dislike.
    The idea that Christians were the only ones that were petty and intolerant is wrong as history has shown. Blaming everything on Christianity while ignoring or denying the same wrongs done by pagans is hypocritical. Everyone needs to get over the fact that christianity replaced the old ways.

    Pride is a virtue according to Aristotle
    "Now the man is thought to be proud who thinks himself worthy of great things, being worthy of them" --but being proud of false ideas is foolish, for the pagans were not worthy of them, hence the term is derogatory, and this is why pride can often lead one astray for it infects the good values. If the pagans were worthy of truly understanding the mysteries then the tradition would never had degenerated in the first place.

  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Imperator X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Last Online
    Saturday, April 4th, 2009 @ 01:47 AM
    Ethnicity
    Celto-Germanic
    Subrace
    Nordid/Atlantid.
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Massachusetts Massachusetts
    Location
    Boston
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Family
    Single, looking
    Occupation
    Looking
    Politics
    Constitutionalist
    Religion
    Hindu - Shakta
    Posts
    792
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    12 Posts
    I have already treated the subject of Christian (and Abrahamic monotheism's) intolerance to ancient indigenous religions... In http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=110406&page=2 #16

    The Abrahamic Religions have a record of intolerance absolutely unheard of in the ancient traditions.

    The "pagan" (suggest a better word if you have a problem with it) attitude was one of openness and tolerance. They would've been perfectly happy to accomodate Jesus as just another god, had the Christians not been so petty. As a matter of fact, it is common to see many Hindus wearing crucifixes because they accomodate Jesus as an avatar of Vishnu. How else did all these foreign gods get accomodated in Greece, Rome and in the farther reaches of the Empire? (Gaul, Britannia, etc.) It's not like the Romans went to Syria and said "Your Syrian gods are false, you may only worship Roman ones." That attitude is an Abrahamic one.
    SVMDEVSSVMCAESARSVMCAELVMETINFERNVM

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Imperator X For This Useful Post:


  10. #8
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    Monday, March 16th, 2009 @ 05:21 PM
    Ethnicity
    Swedish
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Sweden Sweden
    Gender
    Family
    Single
    Politics
    Anarch
    Religion
    Pagan Yogi
    Posts
    61
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exit View Post
    The idea that Christians were the only ones that were petty and intolerant is wrong as history has shown. Blaming everything on Christianity while ignoring or denying the same wrongs done by pagans is hypocritical. Everyone needs to get over the fact that christianity replaced the old ways.
    But I haven´t said that only christians have been intolerant and petty. I´m just saying that they have excelled in it. There is a big difference between feeding some useless religious fanatics to the lions and burning for example Giordano Bruno on the stake. The first act is brutal, I´m not defending it. But the second act is contemptible.

    "Now the man is thought to be proud who thinks himself worthy of great things, being worthy of them" --but being proud of false ideas is foolish, for the pagans were not worthy of them, hence the term is derogatory, and this is why pride can often lead one astray for it infects the good values. If the pagans were worthy of truly understanding the mysteries then the tradition would never had degenerated in the first place.
    Are you saying its because of pagans like Plato, Aristotle or Plotin that the tradition have degenerated? Are they unworthy? Are the values they defend the wrong ones?

  11. #9
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last Online
    Monday, April 26th, 2010 @ 04:05 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Gender
    Posts
    646
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Fafne View Post
    Are you saying its because of pagans like Plato, Aristotle or Plotin that the tradition have degenerated? Are they unworthy?
    It's funny that you should mention Plato since his master was persecuted for as they put it "corrupting the minds of the youth."

    Plato admits that much of the knowledge of the Greek mysteries was lost and he regarded the people of his time as well as the nobles as utter morons.


    Are the values they defend the wrong ones?
    What is it with this obsession over "values"? I couldn't care less about morals.

  12. #10
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    Monday, March 16th, 2009 @ 05:21 PM
    Ethnicity
    Swedish
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    Sweden Sweden
    Gender
    Family
    Single
    Politics
    Anarch
    Religion
    Pagan Yogi
    Posts
    61
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exit View Post
    It's funny that you should mention Plato since his master was persecuted for as they put it "corrupting the minds of the youth."
    Yes, thats a good point. But I haven´t said that everything was fine until christianity showed up.

    What is it with this obsession over "values"? I couldn't care less about morals.
    You seemed to value christianity higher than me, for example. Don´t you value something more than you value other things?

    This thread is bout the authors who write about Tradition. For them there is a great hierarchical chain of being, from the highest value to the lowest. That chain is also a part of the philosophy of Plato, Aristole and Plotin whom I mentioned above.The christians kept the idea in principle, but christianized it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_chain_of_being

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Can Christianity Stand Against Norse Paganism?
    By Aeternitas in forum Comparative Religion
    Replies: 81
    Last Post: Thursday, July 22nd, 2021, 06:20 AM
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: Sunday, June 12th, 2016, 02:54 AM
  3. Puritan Values or MBA Values?
    By Nachtengel in forum Protestantism
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Tuesday, May 4th, 2010, 12:46 AM
  4. Christianity Vs Paganism in Russia
    By Old Winter in forum Comparative Religion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Saturday, May 1st, 2010, 05:39 PM
  5. The Struggle Between Paganism and Christianity
    By Blutwölfin in forum Germanic Heathenry
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Monday, October 17th, 2005, 12:42 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •