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Thread: Why is Anglo-Saxon of No Significance in England?

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    Why is Anglo-Saxon of No Significance in England?

    Quite rightly the Welsh, Scottish and Irish treasure their native languages, and the local educational authorities insist that all students take a GCSE exam in the language. However, in England, no one ever mentions Anglo-Saxon, and it has no presence on the national ciriculum or anything. It strikes me as odd that if languages like Ancient Greek and Latin are quite often taught in schools, then why not Anglo-Saxon? I believe Ancient Greek is taught in Greek schools, so why no Anglo-Saxon?

    However, I guess if they Labour government were to encourage the teaching of Anglo-Saxon, that would be making the implication that the English actually had a heritage - something the Labour government strongly deny.

    I think Anglo-Saxon is an awesome language, and I feel that it is just as much a part of my heritage as Ancient Greek is to someone from Greece. Whenever I see Anglo-Saxon written it makes me feel proud to be English .

    Your thoughts?

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    Many probably view Anglo-Saxon as a simpler form of English as it is called Old English as well, and don't see it as a seperate language at all. Where as countries like Wales and Ireland are being taught an entirely different language from their native tongue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ormus View Post
    Many probably view Anglo-Saxon as a simpler form of English as it is called Old English as well, and don't see it as a seperate language at all. Where as countries like Wales and Ireland are being taught an entirely different language from their native tongue.

    Actually, It is called Old English in English.

    The language is actually called " ENGLISC " .
    Englisc is an entirely different language than modern English, although modern English has a lot of ENGLISC in it.

    Englisc is beautifull.

    It very very closely resembles Old Frisian. Frisia is a North East Dutch
    province nowadays. But there are also frisans in Germany's North West.
    (Thanks Drim)

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    The classical languages (Classical Latin, Koine) used to be tools for Germanics in their effort to dominate southern Europe, which is why they continued to be pillars of "Western civilization" and have been taught as such, although they are increasingly obsolete since English has accidentally become the language of globalisation. Our own languages were never very interesting to anybody and their historical forms will not receive substantial attention just like our current national languages and dialects are bound to degenerate and die out in the present environment, with the sole exception of (bad) English, which will be spoken by every living creature across this pile of dirt called Earth if this global structure is not trashed in a timely fashion.

    I have seen Englishmen welcome the fact that there are now less differences between America and England than between different regions of England a hundred years ago, as if that was a good thing. Keep in mind, though, that the fact that you are now closer to other Germanics also means that you are uncomfortably close to everyone else.

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    "The classical languages (Classical Latin, Koine) used to be tools for Germanics in their effort to dominate southern Europe, which is why they continued to be pillars of "Western civilization" and have been taught as such, although they are increasingly obsolete since English has accidentally become the language of globalisation. "

    I do not think that it is such an accident, hauke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfang View Post
    I do not think that it is such an accident, hauke.
    It might have been Spanish or French instead if the British Empire hadn't been as successful, but the expectional nature of the US as an universal nation, which happens to be a former British colony, certainly plays a part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    It might have been Spanish or French instead if the British Empire hadn't been as successfull, but the expectional nature of the US as an universal nation, which happens to be a former British colony, certainly plays a part.
    It could never have been Spanish. The Orthodox jews declared Spain off limits for the establishment of large jewish communities in, long , long ago after their expulsion from Spain.
    The british were not as ethnocentric as the Germans, and as the English speaking media is to a large part "owned" by people of (mostly east european) jewish extraction) .The Anglo-Americans saw that the selling of "English" could be a good thing economicaly for their upper ruling class.
    The post Norman English never treated their Volk as the Volk, but instead as economic units to be used by an elite class., the same as the Slavic nobility.
    The only people who are racially concious in America as a whole are the Jews and the blacks. The Blacks because they were slaves and remember it, and the Jews because they have always been so. Read the Book of Esther in the old testament.

    And then we have The Jews of the Ottoman Empire. but oh gee wait, look, it's out of print!

    http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/used-b...kNPthho60MM%3d

    a Genius for assimilation and organization:
    Jews in the Ottoman Empire,

    http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~fish...ings/levy.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by MetallicPain View Post
    Quite rightly the Welsh, Scottish and Irish treasure their native languages,
    Like what? I haven't seen Scots particularly protected up here. It would actually need more protection --- because, quite frankly, many are now forfeiting their dialect of Scots for a Scots-influenced dialect of English. Which is a shame really, it'd be rather like Norwegians deciding they were all going to talk different dialects of standard Danish from tomorrow onwards.

    It's only Gaelic that is "treasured" because the SNP like to push the agenda of a "Celtic Scotland" all so different from the English - which is obviously a huge heap of bollocks, because we all know that probably at no time within the last 800, 900 years have there ever been more speakers of Gaelic than Scots ... but I've said that often enough, no need to regurgitate.

    and the local educational authorities insist that all students take a GCSE exam in the language.
    Well, I am going to have to have you down for a lack of decent research, I am afraid.

    First of all, Scots are very proud to have their own educational system, one of the rights that they retained in the Act of Union. As such, Scottish pupils do not take GCSEs and A-Levels, they take Standard Grades and Highers. Always have.

    Secondly, you are being selective of your use of facts on the compulsory learning. Hel, it would have been fun to be made to learn Gaelic, I think it's a beautiful language. But nothing could be further from the truth than there being rigid enforcement of the Gaelic language up here in Scotland.

    Sure, some local authorities have insisted that it be taught, but I cannot remember any compulsory aspect. It is also a local phenomenon. For all others, there are two distinct type of Gaelic offered: "Gaidhlig" (for native speakers) and "Gaelic (Learners)", which follow completely different curriculums. I am not up to date on how it is up in the extreme highlands, but last time I looked, "Gaelic (Learners)" was not compulsory anywhere.

    Welsh is a completely different matter, I believe that tuition is even in Welsh in some areas, and yes they do have GCSEs. But don't generalise on that matter. It is quite a bit of ignorance on your behalf, I am afraid to say.

    However, in England, no one ever mentions Anglo-Saxon, and it has no presence on the national ciriculum or anything.
    Old High German is not on the curriculum either in Germany, now is it - not even Middle High German! What a sacrilege!

    Anglo-Saxon is an old language that did not take long to develop into Old English, which later was one of the chief influences that formed New English.

    That your English language is one of the most spoken languages in the world is something that should fill you with pride at best - but not bitterness. It grieves me indeed that you should feel offense at that achievement.

    It strikes me as odd that if languages like Ancient Greek and Latin are quite often taught in schools, then why not Anglo-Saxon? I believe Ancient Greek is taught in Greek schools, so why no Anglo-Saxon?
    Latin has been quite an influence towards the grammar in most countries that took on Christianity, and I would wager to say that that includes most countries in Europe. Even though English later ditched much of its grammar and especially its declination and conjugation rules - it is still very prevalent in German for example.

    The Greeks haven't achieved much past the antique, so not learning their ancestral language usually includes not learning about anything they've achieved past the medieval.

    However, I guess if they Labour government were to encourage the teaching of Anglo-Saxon, that would be making the implication that the English actually had a heritage - something the Labour government strongly deny.
    What about the kids that can trace their ancestry proudly back to the Normans, right back to the landing in 1066? Are they less of an English heritage now, are they?

    Just a thought, sarcastic point for thought.

    Whenever I see Anglo-Saxon written it makes me feel proud to be English .
    Well, that is most commendable, but why do you feel such a scorn at your current, New English language? One can still express themselves very elegantly in it, and its legacy around the world proves not of its shame, but of its glory: That being when the English pretty much owned the world, on land, up high, on sea.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Like what? I haven't seen Scots particularly protected up here. It would actually need more protection --- because, quite frankly, many are now forfeiting their dialect of Scots for a Scots-influenced dialect of English. Which is a shame really, it'd be rather like Norwegians deciding they were all going to talk different dialects of standard Danish from tomorrow onwards.

    It's only Gaelic that is "treasured" because the SNP like to push the agenda of a "Celtic Scotland" all so different from the English - which is obviously a huge heap of bollocks, because we all know that probably at no time within the last 800, 900 years have there ever been more speakers of Gaelic than Scots ... but I've said that often enough, no need to regurgitate.
    Regardless of how spoken their traditional languages like Scots are, they are clearly more aware of it than the English, I've seen online and in real life a minority even choose to speak and write in a Scots influenced form of English, while it is obviously not in the education system, many Scots are evidently aware of it, and in Northern Ireland, people are very aware of Ulster Scots, even to the extent it is written on signs and government buildings.

    Well, I am going to have to have you down for a lack of decent research, I am afraid.

    First of all, Scots are very proud to have their own educational system, one of the rights that they retained in the Act of Union. As such, Scottish pupils do not take GCSEs and A-Levels, they take Standard Grades and Highers. Always have.

    Secondly, you are being selective of your use of facts on the compulsory learning. Hel, it would have been fun to be made to learn Gaelic, I think it's a beautiful language. But nothing could be further from the truth than there being rigid enforcement of the Gaelic language up here in Scotland.

    Sure, some local authorities have insisted that it be taught, but I cannot remember any compulsory aspect. It is also a local phenomenon. For all others, there are two distinct type of Gaelic offered: "Gaidhlig" (for native speakers) and "Gaelic (Learners)", which follow completely different curriculums. I am not up to date on how it is up in the extreme highlands, but last time I looked, "Gaelic (Learners)" was not compulsory anywhere.

    Welsh is a completely different matter, I believe that tuition is even in Welsh in some areas, and yes they do have GCSEs. But don't generalise on that matter. It is quite a bit of ignorance on your behalf, I am afraid to say.
    Lol, I didn't feel it necessary to go into technicalities on the education system. I am perfectly aware of the basic "differences" between the Scottish and Welsh & English education systems and they're very similar accept for name, it's just slightly different in order to fiddle it to make it look like Scottish students are oh so much smarter than English students.

    Ok, here I will admit a lack of research in relation to compulsary Gaelic tuition, it seems that it is not compulsary in Scotland, however, it is indeed taught in my Scottish schools on the same basis French and Spanish is. However, I know it is certainly compulsary in Wales and Northern Ireland (as well as the Republic on their education system). In NI and Ireland, they even have Irish language schools. Obviously, I'm not suggesting Scots or Anglo-Saxon schools, but the principle of recognistion still remains the same.



    Old High German is not on the curriculum either in Germany, now is it - not even Middle High German! What a sacrilege!

    Anglo-Saxon is an old language that did not take long to develop into Old English, which later was one of the chief influences that formed New English.

    That your English language is one of the most spoken languages in the world is something that should fill you with pride at best - but not bitterness. It grieves me indeed that you should feel offense at that achievement.
    Well, I certainly am proud of English in it's current form, however, Anglo-Saxon facinates me because it is the basis of became English spoken today. It looks hardly distinguisable as English, yet it is it's direct decendent.

    Latin has been quite an influence towards the grammar in most countries that took on Christianity, and I would wager to say that that includes most countries in Europe. Even though English later ditched much of its grammar and especially its declination and conjugation rules - it is still very prevalent in German for example.
    Latin, I accept has influnced many European languages, however, I feel it is less relavent to me as an Englishman than Anglo-Saxon is. Also, I know this is up to the syllabus and doesn't change what Latin is, but in schools Latin is often taught in a historical context, and not on the basis of how Latin has influenced grammar.

    The Greeks haven't achieved much past the antique, so not learning their ancestral language usually includes not learning about anything they've achieved past the medieval.
    And yet still it is often taught to some degree in big schools in the UK, and yet it is probably less valid in the England than Anglo-Saxon. I know the Sixth Form I went to used to teach it in conjuction with Classical Civilisation. In my opinion, if Ancient Greek is able to have any prescence in a British school, then Anglo-Saxon should definately on the same basis.



    What about the kids that can trace their ancestry proudly back to the Normans, right back to the landing in 1066? Are they less of an English heritage now, are they?

    Just a thought, sarcastic point for thought.



    Well, that is most commendable, but why do you feel such a scorn at your current, New English language? One can still express themselves very elegantly in it, and its legacy around the world proves not of its shame, but of its glory: That being when the English pretty much owned the world, on land, up high, on sea.
    I don't scorn it, I simply feel proud that English evolved from Anglo-Saxon, which is entirely different, yet still directly what English evolved from.

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    Why is Anglo-Saxon of No Significance in England?
    Because we have a language which serves us just as good, if not better, than Englisc ever could. It is called 'English'.

    It would be very uplifting to witness a state sponsored introduction to Old English within our schools (trust me when I say I would more than give my right arm to have it so), but then you would have every Leroy and Patel happily conversing for their homework projects in 'our' language.

    The thought of it would drive me to despair.

    I am less than fluent in Old English. I can string one or two sentences together at best. I'm dyslexic and have low attention spans, so would have to enrol in a adult course to further my understanding of it.
    And that is the way it should be for now. People who love their heritage that they would pay and set aside a few hours each week to learn the language.
    "The only way to get smarter is to play a smarter opponent."

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