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Thread: US Battles Against UN 'Anti-Nazi' Measure

  1. #11
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    With this kind of mentality we are certainly going to have another major war between Europeans. Then, in the aftermath, the Chinese and Indians will take over after we've destroyed ourselves. Brilliant huh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Static Matt View Post
    Ive also heard a lot about these violent neo-Stalinist Russian minorities living in these countries. From what I have heard, they sound equivalent to rioting vandals and are always screaming about how their country supposedly hates them all for rejecting their history, culture, etc....
    I'm not fully aware of the details, but how easy is it for these Russians to get back into Russia? There are legal and practical problems here, that make it difficult to just up and leave. How straightforward is it for them to gain Russian citizenship? How could new homes and jobs be found for them? How many of them have no connections in Russia, and would be absolutely stranded if kicked over the border? Many of these people are as much trapped by history as the native Balts themselves.

    I imagine the Russian Government are guilty of not facilitating things for them, thinking that they are useful where they are, and can only condemn this cynicism, if that's the way it is. But can we expect them to rear brand new cities in the Taiga to shove these people into? The villainy is not quite so clear cut. However, I do think that the Kremlin is missing a trick in not using the potential manpower available here for strategically repopulating some of the lands which China is looming over. Such things have been done before ( http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=110346 )!

    All sorts of incentives could be offered to encourage whole blocks of these people to make themselves of use to Russia in a far more wholesome manner. A logistical nightmare, but necessary. It would take a lot of diplomacy between the states involved though, and feelings are strained at the moment.

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    Senior Member Patrioten's Avatar
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    I find it strange though, even though the Soviet union collapsed, of which these Russians were citizens when it existed, shouldn't they have automatically gotten Russian citizenships just like all other Russians that were Soviet citizens? Even though they lived on Baltic soil when these countries became independent nations, they didn't get Baltic citizenships and should therefor have kept their Soviet ones. Therefor, logically, shouldn't these citizenships simply have been "updated"? Why aren't they Russian citizens?

    Since 1992, Estonia has naturalized some 137,000 residents of undefined citizenship. 118,800 person (mainly ethnic Russians) or 8.7 per cent of the total population, are of undetermined citizenship. In Latvia, non-citizens are approximately 415 000 or 17 % of the population.

    Both the European Union and the Council of Europe, as well as the Russian government, expressed their concern during the 1990s about minority rights in several countries, most notably Latvia. In Moldova, the Russian-dominated Transnistria region broke away from government control amid fears the country would soon reunite with Romania. In June 2006 Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the plan to introduce national policy aiming at encouraging ethnic Russian immigration to Russia. [52]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_diaspora

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    I find it strange though, even though the Soviet union collapsed, of which these Russians were citizens when it existed, shouldn't they have automatically gotten Russian citizenships just like all other Russians that were Soviet citizens? Even though they lived on Baltic soil when these countries became independent nations, they didn't get Baltic citizenships and should therefor have kept their Soviet ones. Therefor, logically, shouldn't these citizenships simply have been "updated"? Why aren't they Russian citizens?
    Bureaucratic trouble. People were still using their Soviet passports until recently in Russia, when a final deadline was set for changing over, and even at-home-Russians occasionally had a bit of bother sorting out the paperwork, some slipping through the net. There is even a well known acronym in Russian - ChBG - Chelovek bez grazhdanstva - Person Without Citizenship - for these. Imagine how many Kirgiz, Tajiks, Moldovans and Azeris there are around with Soviet passports too, anxious to get out of their homelands, and how it's not quite so straightforward as it might seem to sift Russians from among them. Soviet passports had a field for Natsional'nost' for which most concerned had 'russkiy', which you would think would make things easy but many for various reasons had the simple 'sovetskiy' instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    With this kind of mentality we are certainly going to have another major war between Europeans.
    It is necessary to stand strong and firm in order to have a good negotiating position against the Russians. If we just knuckle under, they will recognize the fact that we are pathetic and all opportunities will be lost. Unfortunately, the Baltic states do not have the military strength to resist Russian attempts to conclude the destruction of their nations and that makes them easy prey for the United States, who are eager to infect them with their sickness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    It is necessary to stand strong and firm in order to have a good negotiating position against the Russians. If we just knuckle under, they will recognize the fact that we are pathetic and all opportunities will be lost.
    Equally, one can argue that the Russians need to stand strong and firm in order to have a good negotiating position, because the EU and US neocons are definitely not doing them any favours. It cuts both ways.

    Unfortunately, the Baltic states do not have the military strength to resist Russian attempts to conclude the destruction of their nations and that makes them easy prey for the United States, who are eager to infect them with their sickness.
    It's ludicrous to think that Russia is going to attack any Baltic states. That is just not going to happen anytime soon. More scaremongering from the neocons, don't believe it.

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    Senior Member Patrioten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Bureaucratic trouble. People were still using their Soviet passports until recently in Russia, when a final deadline was set for changing over, and even at-home-Russians occasionally had a bit of bother sorting out the paperwork, some slipping through the net. There is even a well known acronym in Russian - ChBG - Chelovek bez grazhdanstva - Person Without Citizenship - for these. Imagine how many Kirgiz, Tajiks, Moldovans and Azeris there are around with Soviet passports too, anxious to get out of their homelands, and how it's not quite so straightforward as it might seem to sift Russians from among them. Soviet passports had a field for Natsional'nost' for which most concerned had 'russkiy', which you would think would make things easy but many for various reasons had the simple 'sovetskiy' instead.
    This sounds increadibly fishy to me. When was the deadline set to? Are we talking about years or months? Doesn't this mean that they have been Russian citizens even in the eyes of Russia, that their citizenship has been recognized, if only up untill recently? So all this stuff about these Russians being stateless and non-citizens, it's simply false then, they have instead been Russians that have chosen not to move back to Russia and gone through the paperwork?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    This sounds increadibly fishy to me. When was the deadline set to? Are we talking about years or months? Doesn't this mean that they have been Russian citizens even in the eyes of Russia, that their citizenship has been recognized, if only up untill recently? So all this stuff about these Russians being stateless and non-citizens, it's simply false then, they have instead been Russians that have chosen not to move back to Russia and gone through the paperwork?
    It's not quite how you see it, it's just chaotic. I think it was about three years ago or so, but I travel too much and my life is rather chaotic and so I have no sense of time! THere's an additional factor in the restrictions on movement and residence in Russia. You have to be registered where you live, and can be fined and whatnot if found elsewhere, as a vagrant. When your country includes Dagestan and Chechnya there's some sense to this. In normal life, it's just a means for policemen to get small bribes off you. I am anomalous in this regard, as I've never been stopped once in seven years, unlike most expats who get it every other month! There are problems in getting legal employment without registration, and the 'residential question' in Russian cities is a legendary and permanent problem anyway. Russia also has to try to act somehow against the wish to move to the capital. If it was a free for all, you'd have 150,000,000 people living in Moscow, and maybe 1 per 500km2 elsewhere!

    And there are Russians in Estonia who are quite happy there. I have a friend in whose family there have been several mixed marriages in Talinn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Interesting, no doubt this is because of the lingering hatred between Balts and Russians. The Baltic lands are partially to blame though, who are treating the sizeable Russian minorities like dirt.
    Good.

    Have you been around the Russian border? Finland or Estonia? The Russians there are essentially every kind of thug out there. In Pieksämäki, the Russian population began to get violent. Gangs of them were patrolling at night beating up derelicts and drunks. I have a few friends who got attacked.

    In Estonia the Russian immigrants are disliked for similar reasons Mexician illegal immigrants are disliked in America. They create unfair competition for industry work, are responsible for an increase in crime especially crime involving drugs, prostitution, theft and assault.

    And besides all the disrespect they get they still refuse to go back to Russia because afterall, they may be hated but they are making more money they would have made staying in Russia. A good wage in Russia is something like ten Euros a day!

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    Senior Member Static Matt's Avatar
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    Do you really think the Russian government wants to truly make any attempt to get these people back?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spo89RwoPvs

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