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Thread: Comeback for Putin?

  1. #51
    Senior Member Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingolf View Post
    My so-called charges are documented by numerous threads where counter-argumentation has remained unanswered by you. You recently claimed, for instance, that all men share a *basic instinct for freedom*. When I asked you to give some examples of non-Western civilizations based on this *instinct*, you gave me a list of examples from the chamber of horrors, i.e. some of the most misanthropic and oppressive regimes in world history. The same pattern is observed again and again. There is always an anti-Western bias in your contributions, sometimes disguised as *neutrality* or an appeal to moral universalism. Leftist *love* for non-Western countries is forgery, and motivated by a monstrous animosity and alienation vis-a-vis everything western, European, Germanic etc. etc


    The Neocons are nothing but transformed leftists, and your rhetoric belongs to the same family, rooted in Judeo-Christian dualisms. If somebody airs criticism against non-Western regimes/political systems/cultures/civilizations, Skyhawk will most certainly announce his arrival - never missing a good opportunity to preach his *detached* universalist gospel.


    Leftist universalism, according to which tribal affinity is irrelevant or even immoral/evil/pathological.


    Leftists enjoy myths, deconstructing old myths (nations as imagined communities), constructing new ones or just recycling old nonsense in new wrapping. If you want to play the postmodern game, you will have a problem playing parallel games consisting of brain-dead leftist dogmas, paranoid power analyses etc. etc. But I guess you *shall overcome* that one too...
    Marvellous.

    You've managed to take *your* thread right off the rails. Putin nor Russia is mentioned anywhere in this post and I simply see it as a personal attack and of no relevance to the thread whatsoever.

    I think it's both interesting and incredible that you can claim who is and who is not both educated and ignorant and uneducated and ignorant. As you did not respond to my question (in retort to your own) about whether or not you have studied Russian history, I'm going to assume you haven't. Perhaps we need a new category - uneducated and indoctrinated?

    It seems that you have engaged in a number of heated debates here on Skadi. I thought you would have some facts and keep clear away from Ad Hominems.

    The West? It's an ambiguous concept:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dictionary.com
    west (wěst) Pronunciation Key
    n.

    1. Abbr. W
    1. The cardinal point on the mariner's compass 270° clockwise from due north and directly opposite east.
    2. The direction opposite to the direction of the earth's axial rotation.
    3. The western part of the earth, especially Europe and the Western Hemisphere.
    4. The western part of a region or country.
    5. A historical region of the United States west of the Allegheny Mountains.
    6. The region of the United States west of the Mississippi River.
    7. The United States, Canada, and the noncommunist countries of Europe, especially during the Cold War.
    8. The nations of North America and Europe with developed capitalist economies, especially in contrast to less-developed nations.
    2. An area or region lying in the west.
    3. often West
    1. The western part of the earth, especially Europe and the Western Hemisphere.
    2. The western part of a region or country.
    3. A historical region of the United States west of the Allegheny Mountains.
    4. The region of the United States west of the Mississippi River.
    5. The United States, Canada, and the noncommunist countries of Europe, especially during the Cold War.
    6. The nations of North America and Europe with developed capitalist economies, especially in contrast to less-developed nations.
    4. often West
    1. A historical region of the United States west of the Allegheny Mountains.
    2. The region of the United States west of the Mississippi River.
    3. The United States, Canada, and the noncommunist countries of Europe, especially during the Cold War.
    4. The nations of North America and Europe with developed capitalist economies, especially in contrast to less-developed nations.
    Last time I checked, Russia was a developed captialist country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vingolf
    Would you kindly explain to me what communism has to do with this discussion?*
    Well, it's obvisouly not because it is not a Western country. From what I've posted before it obviously is a developed capitalist country. West does not equal Europe(an). Just look at Japan for example.

    Not only this but you have taken numerous stabs at so called "Lefties" throughout this thread. It appears to me that you are one small step away from bunching them all together, pointing your finger and screaming out "COMMIES!!".

    * I had to find that quote in another post I had quoted in this thread. For some unknown reason some of your posts are missing, Vingolf. I wonder why that is?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    You have managed to take *your* thread right off the rails.
    If so, the blame should be taken collectively - including Mr Putins untalented bootlickers and errand boys, both on this forum and beyond. Do we know that Putin and his family speak German at home? Any facts indicating that he, according to you, *holds German(ic) culture in high regard*? Anything indicating that Georgia - according to you - should be regarded as Russias *domestic affairs*?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    I think its both interesting and incredible that you can claim who is and who is not both educated and ignorant and uneducated and ignorant.
    Seek out a library, and you will understand why...

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    The West? Its an ambiguous concept
    Yes, according to dictionary.com...

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    Last time I checked, Russia was a developed captialist country.
    Not included in your list, though... What about China?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    West does not equal Europe(an). Just look at Japan for example.
    Japan is not a Western country from a civilizational, cultural and historical point of view. Neither is Russia. What are you trying to say?

  3. #53
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    The "Western" designation is pointless. It doesn't mean anything of value. In the Cold War days it loosely referred to Europe which was divided between West and East with the iron curtain. Now, people randomly use "Western" to describe white people and culture -- especially in countries like China. They'll refer to you as a "Westerner" if you are Europoid racially.

    I personally find the term redundant. Some use it here too, to describe white European civilization, but refer to it as "Western civilization" just to be a little more PC.

  4. #54
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    In political science, those countries are considered Western that run liberal democracy and capitalism. Different definitions are used in other fields. Historically, the West also referred to Western Christendom or the European powers and their (former) colonial possessions with settler populations. While Westernism originated as a synthesis of ideas and values from Europe and North America, it is in no way limited to those areas and its "success" depends largely on its universal quality drawn from the so-called Enlightenment.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Anfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    The "Western" designation is pointless. It doesn't mean anything of value. In the Cold War days it loosely referred to Europe which was divided between West and East with the iron curtain. Now, people randomly use "Western" to describe white people and culture -- especially in countries like China. They'll refer to you as a "Westerner" if you are Europoid racially.

    I personally find the term redundant. Some use it here too, to describe white European civilization, but refer to it as "Western civilization" just to be a little more PC.
    "Western" is Used by many to mean something connected to created by or belonging to Caucasians who are aculturated in an Euro-centered environment. Or it can in the abstract mean the traditions and heritage of the Caucasians of Western Europe. As such, these western Slavs descended form the Rus, etc , are "fringe West" or peripheral to me. I do not think anyone in their right mind should call israel, 'Western" for example. And that was the meaning behind my first post to this thread. Israeli - Diaspora jews who are somehow accepted as "West".
    Let's go back to Rudyard Kippling on that Concept.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfang View Post
    "Western" is Used by many to mean something connected to created by or belonging to Caucasians who are aculturated in an Euro-centered environment.
    By white nationalists and Western liberalists, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anfang View Post
    Or it can in the abstract mean the traditions and heritage of the Caucasians of Western Europe. As such, these western Slavs descended form the Rus, etc , are "fringe West" or peripheral to me.
    The categorisation of former Eastern Europe is highly contested, but Westernisation is certainly an on-going process. The people in the successor polities of Kiev are East Slavs, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anfang View Post
    I do not think anyone in their right mind should call israel, 'Western" for example.
    Being "Western" is a cancer diagnosis. There is no reason to deny this honour to Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anfang View Post
    Let's go back to Rudyard Kippling on that Concept.
    Rudyard Kipling was a British Imperialist. While this constitutes a source of Westernism, it is insufficient to make him qualified to speak on the subject.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Anfang's Avatar
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    last post.

    I always enjoy your posts, I am going to miss them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    By white nationalists and Western liberalists, I guess.

    Yes but we are talking about traditional understanding. I chose something that would be understood by some that are posting to this thread and you and Ii have both tried it from the other angle.

    You explain the same thing differently in different situations.I see that you are particularly discerning on this, which is good.
    The categorisation of former Eastern Europe is highly contested, but Westernisation is certainly an on-going process. The people in the successor polities of Kiev are East Slavs, though.
    Agreed- please also remember that the Drittes Reich found the West Ukranians Germanic enough to Umvolk.


    Being "Western" is a cancer diagnosis. There is no reason to deny this honour to Israel.

    LOL but no, if only because we want to regain every distinction on every level when contextualizing the fremd.


    Rudyard Kipling was a British Imperialist. While this constitutes a source of Westernism, it is insufficient to make him qualified to speak on the subject.

    I was about to add a quote from the poem you posted,

    "The Stranger within my gates,
    He may be evil or good,
    But I cannot tell what powers control—
    What reasons sway his mood;
    Nor when the Gods of his far-off land
    Shall repossess his blood."

    We need complete exclusion of the stranger's thoughts from our discourse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfang View Post
    I always enjoy your posts, I am going to miss them.
    Don't leave, I am sure this misunderstanding can somehow be cleared with the administration. I also enjoyed your posts.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Anfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Don't leave, I am sure this misunderstanding can somehow be cleared with the administration. I also enjoyed your posts.
    Thank you.
    I just wanted to say that I like a lot of people here also including yourself.

    I cannot be somewhere where a "Volkisch" person posts the words of some stranger as evidence that we should think the way the enemies of our race want us to think, and then when someone points out thir mistake that person is rebuked. That is really too much to accept in a place like this. I go back to the quote from kippling.
    These people *allways* look to the interestes of their people. we cannot look at their political thought as anything to consider or accept for us, but rather to examine their every word and ask. Why does this stranger want me to think this?"

    It should even be policy to *NOT* quote ther writings of strangers without entering a caveat in the text explaining that the source is not Germanic.
    Especially on a topic as important as our politic with the neighbor to the East.


    -------------------------------------------------------------
    "Nicht Kleckern aber Sonder Klotzen!-"
    Heinz Guderian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingolf View Post
    A bit too simplistic, no?
    It blurs distinctions between units that should be separate. It is an additional problem, because Western civilization has been filled with intellectual trash and redefined by Enlightenment values. We form a Western "community of values" with our dominators, says the FRG. I'd rather not. It might become useful again after a Gegenaufklärung has succeeded, as a shorthand term for the Germanic World.

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