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Thread: Germans, What Do You Think of the Poles in Germany?

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    Germans, What Do You Think of the Poles in Germany?

    These questions are really for Germans only, unless some non-Germans have some personal knowledge on the subject.

    As I understand it, Poles were welcomed to Germany in the early 19th century to work as coal miners in the Ruhr Valley. They came in large numbers, and they never left. As I understand it, they have become woven into the fabric of German society. They faced no persecution from the Nazi regime, and I remember one prominent SS officer (his name escapes me) had a hyphenated surname, with the second half being Polish. This leads me to believe that the common Polish German males were conscripted into the Wehrmacht during World War II. One of my other areas of interest is German soccer, and if you take a look at the list of every player to have ever appeared for the Nationalmannschaft http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=50039...ash=534a4d3e04, you will find dozens of Polish surnames. (Figuring that a surname only tells the story of a father's father's father's (etc), then it may be possible that a lot of German-surnamed Germans have Polish lineage as well.)

    I once asked a German what Germans thought of these Polish Germans, and he told me that they were fully accepted as Germans, as if no one even paid attention to their Polish surnames.

    So what I want to know is have these Poles been as fully accepted by Germans as I believe?

    How extensively have they intermarried with Germans?

    Have they kept their language and customs, along with adopting Germany's?

    What do you personally think of them?

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    In 1900, the main concentrations of the Polish minority were:
    District of Gelsenkirchen, (Westfalia) 13.1 %
    District of Bochum, (Westfalia) 9.1 %
    District of Dortmund, (Westfalia) 7.3 %
    City of Gelsenkirchen, (Westfalia) 5.1 %
    http://www.verwaltungsgeschichte.de/....html#polnisch

    Those figures are much lower in the non-industrial parts of Prussia (among those who still belong to Germany today). Intermarriage should have followed mostly religious lines as assimilation progressed and can be expected to be quite high in the regions affected. Estimates range from 150,000 persons of Polish descent to 1,600,000 out of 5 million in the Ruhr area.

    The historical Polish citizens of Prussia who migrated to the Rhine province and other industrial areas are now fully accepted as Germans. Their language and customs are dead except for a few cases where they have become part of regional customs and dialects.

    Their Polish surnames are seldom recognized as such and they can be trusted to deride actual Poles as car thieves just like any other German. In other words, they are not in any way disruptive and lack a separate group consciousness. I think they are the least of our problems.
    Last edited by Hauke Haien; Wednesday, November 12th, 2008 at 11:20 PM. Reason: added information

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    What do I think if them?

    They are better than the Russians and Turks...

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    Quote Originally Posted by IvyLeaguer View Post
    They are better than the Russians and Turks...
    They're just as bad, if not worse. They steal German jobs. Poland is one of the most anti-German nations that can ever exist. They mock Germany and Germans at every step. They try to use WWII guilt to dominate us.

    There is no such things as "Polish Germans" by the way. You're either a German or a Polak. If someone has a Polish surname from centuries ago but he is predominantly German then he is German fullstop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossi View Post
    There is no such things as "Polish Germans" by the way. You're either a German or a Polak. If someone has a Polish surname from centuries ago but he is predominantly German then he is German fullstop.
    Interesting. On the other thread http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.p...058#post918058 you alluded to me as "pro-Slavic or pro-mixing", but here you have confirmed that you accept Poles as Germans.

    How can you say you can be either a Polak or a German? What is Miro Klose? He's half and half.

    You are hiding behind the ridiculously vague term "predominantly German". What about Littbarski? As far as I know, he doesn't have any recent Polish ancestors, but he physically appears more Polish than German.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    but here you have confirmed that you accept Poles as Germans.
    He has confirmed that he accepts Germans with Polish ancestry. Those who already form part of our ethnic units need to be treated differently than outsiders, although we can still reject them from our communities if this should be beneficial. In no way are we obligated to shift our composition in a more Polish direction or even merge with them in order to conform to a misguided notion of ancestral purity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    What is Miro Klose? He's half and half.
    Miro Klose himself said in a recent interview to Przegląd Sportowy that it would be best for him not to be called German or Polish, but European. As he stated in an interview to Der Spiegel in 2007, his family at home speaks Polish to each other, with his twin sons learning German in Kindergarten. He has a Polish-born wife Sylwia Klose and is the father of twins Luan and Noah.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    You are hiding behind the ridiculously vague term "predominantly German". What about Littbarski? As far as I know, he doesn't have any recent Polish ancestors, but he physically appears more Polish than German.
    He is a German until he's not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    He has confirmed that he accepts Germans with Polish ancestry. Those who already form part of our ethnic units need to be treated differently than outsiders, although we can still reject them from our communities if this should be beneficial. In no way are we obligated to shift our composition in a more Polish direction or even merge with them in order to conform to a misguided notion of ancestral purity.
    That's fine, but compare that with his original response. Todesengel and Ossi were the ones who decided my question was about Slavs. My question was very clearly about the legacies of the Polish miners, etc. Todesengel dimissed it because she didn't want to give her opinion of "Slavs" for fear of being censored. Ossi used it as a reason to criticize "pro-Slavs".

    Then it turns out that he doesn't consider them Slavs at all, and I suppose Todesengel doesn't either. I guess if they just read the question properly to begin with, things would've been a lot clearer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    He is a German until he's not.
    Seems to me the Slavic-appearing ones should be "Germans with an asterisk". A Littbarski can never be a Köpke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimm View Post
    Seems to me the Slavic-appearing ones should be "Germans with an asterisk". A Littbarski can never be a Köpke.
    What matters is group identity and the individual can only relate to that. When the group draws up a demographic policy and decides to promote or thwart certain lines, known ancestry certainly plays an auxiliary part if the positive development of folkish/pseudo-tribal entities is aimed for.

    For now, the primary problems are the territorialist redefinition of our German identity and the impossibility of any demographic policy in liberal democracy. Overcoming two millenia of negative influences is a completely different task that does not necessitate the destruction of our ethnic identity nor the premature exclusion of individuals from it.

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