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Thread: Questions from Europeans to Americans

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    Senior Member Aptrgangr's Avatar
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    Question Questions from Europeans to Americans

    I think it is a good idea to start a thread where Europeans can ask Americans questions about America in general, US policy in particular. Much of the mutual misunderstandings come from a lack of knowledge.

    My 1st question is:
    Why is there a fight against the weapon lobby (NRA) and weapon possession in general? How can be a fight against granted basic rights granted by the constitution be allowed? Overhere in Europe we, of course, are not granted a right by the ruling that are spitting on our common law that allows to have weapons. But I do not understand why there are proposals to rewrite the US constitution, and why it has so much support within the USA. Overhere it is said having weapons is dangerous, Switzerland is more liberal in matters of weapon ownership than the FRG is, the number of shooting incidents is way lower there than here - still it is said having weapons is a proplem. The illegal weapons are a problem, foreigners have their mafia-structures to get weapons, we have indigenous citizens have just the right to be silent victims, we even can´t have decent knives.. Our good weapons like Heckler&Koch or Glock are made for the US/export market mainly. In a debate with a leftist about the USA I said the high rates of shooting incidents do not happen in the mainly white populated areas of the USA, but mainly in the coloured urban districts. I, of course, was labelled as racist. Can someone confirm or debunk this claim? How are the NRA relations with Jewish lobbyists?
    Thanks.
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    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    I'll let someone else answer the other questions. But, you're definitely right to say that the highest number (overwhelming) of gun crimes (and even violent crimes of all sorts) occur in areas with high numbers of minorities, usually Blacks but also Hispanics.

    A fun fact, Philadelphia has an average of one murder per day in the city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post

    My 1st question is:
    Why is there a fight against the weapon lobby (NRA) and weapon possession in general? How can be a fight against granted basic rights granted by the constitution be allowed? Overhere in Europe we, of course, are not granted a right by the ruling that are spitting on our common law that allows to have weapons. But I do not understand why there are proposals to rewrite the US constitution, and why it has so much support within the USA.
    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    It seems so simple & yet.... It's not just what the Constitution says but what the Supreme Court Justices says it means. The argument by gun-control advocates (the Left) is that the second amendment gave the right to bear arms to the States & that the States had the right to regulate firearms. Pro-gunrights advocates insist that it is a individual right to the people. This argument highlights a bigger issue, activist judges "reinterpreting" the meaning of the Constitution. This is why abortion was legalized (Roe v Wade) & why gay marriage has become legal in Massachusetts, California & Connecticut. What the Left cannot obtain by fair legislative process they will seek through the courts. As for why the Left wants to restrict gun ownership the reason is simple: to establish a Marxist police state. It's considered McCarthyism to say so outloud but that is the truth. The right to bear arms was established to maintain a free state, that is not what Marxists strive for. In addition to trying to outlaw gun ownership, the Left has also advocted restricted taxes on firearms & ammo. The stated reason for guncontrol is crime but obviously criminals would not be deterred by gunlaws - convicted felons (persons who have forfeited their rights) still use firearms.



    Overhere it is said having weapons is dangerous, Switzerland is more liberal in matters of weapon ownership than the FRG is, the number of shooting incidents is way lower there than here - still it is said having weapons is a proplem.
    That is just an excuse. More people are killed in auto accidents annually then by firearms. So automobiles are more dangerous then guns, should we outlaw private ownership of motor vehicles? Actually that might be the next thing on the Leftys' agenda after seizing the guns, no much mobility = freedom for the masses. Let us not forget, Teddy Kennedy killed a woman with a car, not a gun.


    The illegal weapons are a problem, foreigners have their mafia-structures to get weapons, we have indigenous citizens have just the right to be silent victims, we even can´t have decent knives..
    Yeah, the illegal weapons trade will flourish among the ethnic crime syndicates. A wonderful world where the police & Negro & Latino criminals have all the guns.


    In a debate with a leftist about the USA I said the high rates of shooting incidents do not happen in the mainly white populated areas of the USA, but mainly in the coloured urban districts. I, of course, was labelled as racist. Can someone confirm or debunk this claim?
    More crime happens in the ghetto or barrio then in the vanilla suburbs. Minorities are much more likelier to commit crime & their victims are usually their own kind.

    How are the NRA relations with Jewish lobbyists?
    Do you mean the pro-Israeli lobby? I don't know but the NRA likes to point out Israel as a society where gunownership is widespread - practically mandatory. Except the Palestinians aren't allowed to own firearms legally. As far as Jews as an ethnic group, they are generally opposed to the right to bear arms. Jews are way over represented on the far left of American politics but the NRA does not make this an issue. If they did the NRA would be accused of being anti-Semitic. Any organization taking an opposing position against any organization or issue that is disproportionatelly supported by Jews is expected to bend-over-backwards to prove they are not anti-Semitic.

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    Senior Member Kreis AnnA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    I think it is a good idea to start a thread where Europeans can ask Americans questions about American in general, US policy in particular. Much of the mutual misunderstandings come from a lack of knowledge.

    My 1st question is:
    Why is there a fight against the weapon lobby (NRA) and weapon possession in general? How can be a fight against granted basic rights granted by the constitution be allowed? Overhere in Europe we, of course, are not granted a right by the ruling that are spitting on our common law that allows to have weapons. But I do not understand why there are proposals to rewrite the US constitution, and why it has so much support within the USA. Overhere it is said having weapons is dangerous, Switzerland is more liberal in matters of weapon ownership than the FRG is, the number of shooting incidents is way lower there than here - still it is said having weapons is a proplem. The illegal weapons are a problem, foreigners have their mafia-structures to get weapons, we have indigenous citizens have just the right to be silent victims, we even can´t have decent knives.. Our good weapons like Heckler&Koch or Glock are made for the US/export market mainly. In a debate with a leftist about the USA I said the high rates of shooting incidents do not happen in the mainly white populated areas of the USA, but mainly in the coloured urban districts. I, of course, was labelled as racist. Can someone confirm or debunk this claim? How are the NRA relations with Jewish lobbyists?
    Thanks.
    You're claim is valid. Gun violence is the leading cause of death among black urban youth. Here's an example: There are approximately 80 police precincts (Districts) in New York City. But some 80% of all gun crimes. and 90 percent of all murders occur in only seven specific precincts. All of them are black and hispanic in population.

    And it's not racist to point out these fact because even black people know the problem of crime among their own. They are the largest group of victims.

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    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    How can be a fight against granted basic rights granted by the constitution be allowed?
    We don't have any such laws against 'advocating unconstitutional policies' or whatever they use to shut down NS type parties in Germany, in fact such advocacy is protected by the first amendment. You can advocate a ban on guns, genocide, establishment of a dictatorship, whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    But I do not understand why there are proposals to rewrite the US constitution
    Like others alluded to, the plan is not to rewrite the Constitution but put in place but instead install judges who ignore or 'reinterpret' the Constitution. To rewrite the Constitution would require the approval of 3/4 of the states, and that is highly unlikely to happen.



    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    and why it has so much support within the USA.
    It really doesn't, in most areas, except some rural/suburban whites who don't have much experience with guns. A lot of left wing politicians will vote for anti-gun laws, they will run for office on other issues like protecting the environment and abortion rights, pacifist foreign policy, etc; nobody really gets elected on a promise to restrict gun rights.

    Restricting gun access is part of the overall socialist plan to make people more vulnerable, less able to take care of themselves, and thus more dependent on the government. This thought process is generally restricted to a small group of elites, who attract votes based on a myriad of special interests and by scaring centrist voters into thinking that the right will create some sort of Dickensian conditions.

    You would be hard pressed to find a person who votes primarily on the basis of banning guns, but supporting a ban on guns gets you the support of many wealthy donors and far left activist groups.
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    Senior Member Praetorianer's Avatar
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    I wondered what´s the opinion to the Kennewick-Man by american traditionlists?

    Kennewick Man

    Doesn´t look like an Indian, doesn´t he?
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    Senior Member Psychonaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harm Wulf View Post
    I wondered what´s the opinion to the Kennewick-Man by american traditionlists?

    Kennewick Man

    Doesn´t look like an Indian, doesn´t he?
    Stephen McNallen, the head of the group I belong to, the Ásatrú Folk Assembly was involved with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    On October 24, 1996, McNallen and the AFA filed suit in U.S. District Court in Portland (Asatru Folk Assembly v. United States) to attempt to stop the US Army Corps of Engineers from turning over the prehistoric remains of the Kennewick man to local Native Americans. Several prominent scientists and archaeologists also filed suit, to block the reinterment of the remains. Kennewick Man was the oldest intact human fossil ever found in the Pacific Northwest. Genetic tests to identify ties to modern people or tribes were inconclusive due to the deteriorated condition of the remains. McNallen became embroiled in the Kennewick Man issue and appeared in Time Magazine, The Washington Post and on television, arguing that modern adherents of Ásatrú have more in common with the prehistoric Kennewick Man than modern Native Americans. This claim, as yet, cannot be established without DNA tests on the remains.

    After a protracted legal battle, the court ruled that the human remains were not "Native American" within the meaning of NAGPRA (Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act). The remains currently are curated at the Burke Museum in Seattle. As a direct result of his portrayal by the media, McNallen later stated that he no longer advocates public Ásatrú rituals or media presence at Ásatrú ceremonies.
    See also the Irminsul Ættir article on the issue.
    Last edited by Psychonaut; Wednesday, November 19th, 2008 at 04:28 PM. Reason: fixed tag
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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    Reading up on the issue: historically it was ruled that the right to bear arms only applied toward militias. The militia then was absorbed into the military (the national guard). Thus they interpret the right to bear arms to mean that the military has a right to bear arms and no one else. This is bullshit of course. And then other judges have ruled that the bill of rights is a list of suggestions rather than rights. They use a bunch of big words and circular logic to tell you that up means down in this case. So the "official" stance of the U.S. now is that no one has a right to bear arms and that it is a priveldge. I have heard repeatedly that all of our rights are in fact "priveldeges" granted to us by a benevolent and loving government. And that on our own we have no rights.

    The law currently says that if you arrested for anything relating to drugs or domestic violence you are banned from owning a gun for life. Even if you are found innocent. So if you are accused of comitting a crime completely unrelated to gun ownership you no longer may have a gun.

    Curiously this would mean everyone in the ghetto is banned from having guns which is where most gun deaths occur. Showing that banning guns only keeps them out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

    But to show you how absurd the law is: if you are sitting in a car and the guy next to you has weed in his pocket and you aren't aware of it, you may be banned from owning a gun ever again if you get pulled over. If you are walking by an apartment building an inhale drugs by accident and then later fail a drug test- you can never own a gun again.

    According to some state laws if there is a domestic violence call they must arrest someone whether he or she appears guilty or not. So say your family is eating dinner quietly and your neighbor doesn't like you. She calls the police and says the husband is hitting the wife. By law the police have to arrest somebody on such call. Later you are found innocent but may never own a gun again! Now in practice police use common sense and may not arrest anybody on such absurd calls but by law they are supposed to.

    Now the law isn't enforced as much as it could be. And of course you can have it dismissed by an official (like say if you are drug crazed Dick Cheney you will never get your gun taken away if you got connections).

    This is the problem I had getting into the military. My dad attacked me, I called the police on him, they arrested me and I was found not guilty. Now I may never own a gun again and was rejected from the military. The head guy could over rule it or whatever and allow me in but he didn't want to.

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    Senior Member beowulf wodenson's Avatar
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    The 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is merely the affirmation by law of what our pioneer/colonist ancestors considered to be their natural right and freedom as free Englishmen: to bear arms to protect their homes and family,provide food,protect their traditional liberties.
    The United States government in no way "granted" us any rights, these were always ours as free men.
    The longstanding attempt to restrict and outright ban our traditional Right to Bear Arms is not about crime prevention or control, but to better control lawful citizens by disarming them. A major first step to tyranny and dictatorship is a disarmed population. Ask Adolf and Stalin.
    Criminals do not go through legal channels to obtain their weapons, anyhow.
    A firearm in the hands of a law-abiding citizen can help prevent crime in the first place and protect hearth and home.
    Gun bans only leave good citizens defenseless.
    I am a soon to be ex-member of the NRA. My problem with them is that they have whored themselves to the Republicans that have done so much damage to this country, instead of truly and fully supporting the Constitution and its principles.
    To an American, anyway, the Right to Bear Arms is our first freedom from which all others have followed.
    We could not have won our independence from the British crown without an armed citizenry.

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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    It stems from a fundamental difference in ideology.

    If you don't have enough food to eat the traditional conservative says:

    I should have done something better or that's life.

    The liberal:

    The government should have fed me or done more.

    Say there are a lot of violent crimes, mugging, rapings etc. The traditionalist says:

    We should empower people to defend themselves better.

    The liberal:

    the government should do a better job of protecting us.

    Or I know this is hard to imagine but when somebody dies from a gun shot these people really believe what they say when they say "the government shouldn't have let him have a gun- they should ban all guns". Obviously they aren't implying that the government (like police and military) get rid of guns. But they honestly believe in the power of the government and they honestly feel weak and are not people that can rely on themselves or expect others to be reliable. It isn't a conspiracy as much as just a huge shift in culture and attitude. It tends to be the wealthier and better off a society- the more liberal. In a more difficult society say like colonial America or in the wild west there were no liberals. The weak died. And you had to have an attitude of self reliance to survive.

    Maybe there are a few string pullers who would rather have a more docile liberal population, but overall the people who support these policies often believe their own arguments because they have a totally different mindset.

    I don't think it is so much a conspiracy but that a lot of people are weak and dependant by their nature. They go through life as children and they look to their religion as a father figure as well as the government who should take care of them and tell them what to do. Other people feel threatened by this restriction of freedom. It does boil down in some ways to the average of society. A society of smart, strong, responsible people will tend to be more traditional and a society of weak, incompetent, and often irresponsible people will be more liberal.

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