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Thread: Skulls from the Corded Ware and Linear Pottery Cultures

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    Question Skulls from the Corded Ware and Linear Pottery Cultures

    I´m looking for information, studies and various sources of skulls associated with different cultures from the Corded Ware- and Linear Pottery horizon.

    Are there any measurements, pics and classifications of skulls from Globular Amphora, Baden, TRB (Trichterbecherkultur), Rössen, Tripolye, Nordic Battle Axe, Fatyanovo, Comb Ceramic etc ...

    Can any of these cultures be described as having early proto-Germanic peoples when looking at physical anthropology?

    In short: as much information, links, sources, pics, measurements, classifications etc about skulls from prehistoric european cultures.

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    Nothing huh?

    Well then, are there any good books with pics and information about skulls from European cultures (especially Corded Ware and Kurgan cultures, i.e. Indo-European cultures) that you can buy online? I can read and understand swedish, german and english.

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    Yes there are and I have some books for prehistoric cultures in particular. What are you most interested in?

    For some cultures I have nothing or very little, books having only a very brief look at it.

    Better material I have for Central German Corded Ware, Bell Beakers in Germany, Linearbandkeramik (LBK/Danubians), etc.

    An acceptable but partly misleading introduction comes from C.S. Coon, which advantage is that you get a little bit of information for all - but sometimes a misleading one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Yes there are and I have some books for prehistoric cultures in particular. What are you most interested in?

    For some cultures I have nothing or very little, books having only a very brief look at it.

    Better material I have for Central German Corded Ware, Bell Beakers in Germany, Linearbandkeramik (LBK/Danubians), etc.

    An acceptable but partly misleading introduction comes from C.S. Coon, which advantage is that you get a little bit of information for all - but sometimes a misleading one.
    Corded Ware, Beakers and LBK material would be great, both pics and theories about their origins. Beaker skulls have quite higher CI than f.e. Corded Ware, are this by any chance indication that the Beaker people where from a native mesolithic population that adjusted to agriculture? Pics on Yamna skulls would be good for comparison.

    Basically any pic on skulls from any culture would be much appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maymon View Post
    Corded Ware, Beakers and LBK material would be great, both pics and theories about their origins. Beaker skulls have quite higher CI than f.e. Corded Ware, are this by any chance indication that the Beaker people where from a native mesolithic population that adjusted to agriculture? Pics on Yamna skulls would be good for comparison.

    Basically any pic on skulls from any culture would be much appreciated.
    Compare with this post too:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php...27&postcount=3

    The Bell Beaker are a group of unknown origin which core population was Taurid - not sure whether they were Dinarid or rather progressive Armenoid - a minority element was Borreby/Cromagno-Alpinoid - a strong portion was Alpinoid and from they soon assimilated Nordoid-Mediterranid-Cromagnid locals, which had different portions depending on the exact area in question with their numbers rising from early to late - they finally got mixed up with the locals mostly and hold their positions only in certain regions in which their typical Taurid/Dinaroid form persisted.

    First the two main elements of the Central German Corded Ware population:
    Table XIII - the rather Nordoid skulls from the sample:

    Table XIV - the rather Cromagnoid skulls from the sample:


    Both from:
    Gerhard Heberer, Die mitteldeutschen Schnurkeramiker - Tübingen 1938.

    LBK/Danubian skulls which are rather Nordoid and Nordoid-Cromagnoid respectively, comparable to the Corded cultures main elements later:


    From:
    Adelheid Bach, Neolithische Populationen - Weimar 1978.

    Taurid/Dinaroid skulls of the variant which formed the typological core group of the Bell Beaker phenomenon:


    From:
    Kurt Gerhardt, Die Glockenbecherleute in Mittel- und Westdeutschland - Stuttgart 1953.

    They had the Alpinoid peasant element among them, but themselves they were not the result of a typical grain-soil adaptation, but rather specialists, warlike and pastoralists, in a way similar but even more advanced than the Corded Ware people.

    I would rather say the obviously socially dominant Dinaroid core group gathered allies and peasants around them and on the long run lost their cohesion in the local majorities with some exceptions already mentioned.

    The Dinaroid and Alpinoid type are in their extreme also the opposite ends of a brachycephalic form variation, with Dinaroids being the very leptomorphic-mature/progressive and (extreme) Alpinid being the pyknomorphic-reduced and infantile pole.

    In the Bell Beaker core group Dinaroids were the most typical, they had usually the higher proportions of high status burials with many and very typical as well as more valuable burial offerings.

    The second component being Alpinoid and I might - to a certain degree, see a higher sexual dimorphism in this population, since in Dinaroid populations women might, at least on the skull (not the body!) look more Alpiniomorphic than their male counterparts.

    This is part of the normal Dinaroid variation actually, since females which have the same degree of Dinariomorphism like the extreme male forms look indeed somewhat masculinised, but in fact thats a minority among them.

    Other good ressources are Lothar Kilian, John V. Day, Egon Frhr. v. Eickstedt, Ilse Schwidetzky, Wolfram Bernhard etc., etc.

    The LBK had a worse modification than the Corded Ware populaton, due to the bad living conditions, as well as certain primitive variants and deviating forms as a minority element, probably coming from further East or South East, hard to determine. This primitive elements became less frequent in the Corded Ware group, though even among those very broad noses and other primitive traits were still not that uncommon actually.
    With the Bell Beakers the Dinaroid and Alpinoid form spectrum appears en masse for the first time and the later Aunjetitzer largely continue the Corded trend, but with even fewer primitive forms now.
    The classic Central European populations were, if ignoring the exceptions from the rule, from Mesolithic times all Nordoid-Mediterranoid or Cromagnoid, from the LBK to the Corded to the Aunjetitzer and the later Iron Age groups.

    This variation seems to be, in my opinion, the result of autochthonous developments from local Aurignacoid and Cromagnoid from the Mesolithic, as well as additional Aurignacoid elements from the Neolithic cultures.

    If looking at Nordisation, Dinarisation, Alpinisation and Baltisation (of which I tried to explain and theorise in various threads), main factors always were of a selective nature, which means even without large scale immigration, a population could change completely, because the living conditions and selective pressures changed it. Since the numbers of immigrants could have been selected out or further spread depending on their biological and cultural advantages/disadvantages, migration alone doesnt explain a population change in prehistoric times alone in most cases.
    But of course, major migrations took place as well, but rather not from outside of Europe since the Neolithic period.
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    Great post, just a quick question, about those rather Nordoid examples and rather CM examples from Corded Ware, which traits are typically Nordoid and which are typically CM? Both types seem too be rather similar when looking at them for a quicky, what should one look for when trying to classify these skulls correctly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maymon View Post
    Great post, just a quick question, about those rather Nordoid examples and rather CM examples from Corded Ware, which traits are typically Nordoid and which are typically CM? Both types seem too be rather similar when looking at them for a quicky, what should one look for when trying to classify these skulls correctly?
    On average, at least in the Corded Ware populations, the Nordoids had a somewhat higher skull absolutely and relatively, though thats not true for all, there were also some typically Western, low skulled variants approaching Skandonordids, as well as many mixed forms of course. So this is of secondary importance.

    Almost as a rule, the forehead is more sloping in males, but again, thats no sure trait, while its visible on the average.

    Now we come to the most important features everybody can determine with ease:
    The orbital height of Nordoids is absolutely and relatively higher, the form of the orbits more rounded, while the more typical Cromagnoid variants have low and rectangular orbits.

    The nasal root is lower and more retracted, deeper, straight or evens slightly concave nasal bone profiles might appear. The nasal opening is wider, the nose broader. The midface and face total is absolutely and relatively shorter and wider. The cheekbones are often more frontal positioned, though still far away from Mongoliform characteristics of course.

    If looking at the jaws, the chin of the Nordoids goes rather downwards, is rounded, while the chin-jaw region of Cromagnoids is at least in the typical examples more straight, goes more forward and is broader, flaring.

    In the end the differences between Nordoid and Cromagnoid are the same as in all Europoid populations with the Aurignacoid (Nordid, Mediterranid, Orientalid, Nordindid, Gracilindid etc.) and Cromagnoid (Dalofaelid, Berberid, as derivates at least the more robust Alpinoid, Osteuropid, Indobrachid etc.) form extremes, which you can see here schematically:


    The examples come from the classic skulls of Combe Capelle and Cro Magnon.

    Nordid and Dalofaelid/Cromagnid among the Germanic Reihengraeber burials:


    In the Corded Ware population we dont find too many rather typical Cromagnoids, but rather a relative predominance and many mixed/intermediate forms, with the Nordoid element being clearly dominant but having quite often at least slight Cromagnoid influences.
    So its like two form extremes in one population with Nordoid being dominant among the Corded Ware group - regional and chronological differences excluded.

    You can find more examples and an article in German on Thiazi:
    http://forum.thiazi.net/showthread.php?t=103225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Almost as a rule, the forehead is more sloping in males, but again, thats no sure trait, while its visible on the average.
    I´ve also noticed that in many CM skulls, the bones for the browbridges tend to push forward, creating hence a more "archaic" look. Is there something to this or am I just dreaming?

    In the end the differences between Nordoid and Cromagnoid are the same as in all Europoid populations with the Aurignacoid (Nordid, Mediterranid, Orientalid, Nordindid, Gracilindid etc.) and Cromagnoid (Dalofaelid, Berberid, as derivates at least the more robust Alpinoid, Osteuropid, Indobrachid etc.) form extremes, which you can see here schematically:
    Yes I´ve seen those pics before (even do I can´t see them now for some reason).

    What do you label the Early Yamnaya people as? Would they fit as some CM type or more towards Lundman´s Trönder?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maymon View Post
    I´ve also noticed that in many CM skulls, the bones for the browbridges tend to push forward, creating hence a more "archaic" look. Is there something to this or am I just dreaming?
    Well, Dalofaelids are almost as a rule robust, Nordids can be robust as well as intermediate, and the browridges are not just an archaic, but also a robust-masculine trait. Additionally the low nasal root and "Einzug" directly below the brow ridges in Cromagnoids (more common than Aurignacoids at least) makes the browridges even more pronounced LOOKING - than in an individual with a high nasal root and Greek nasal profile f.e., even if the browridges themselves are actually of the same kind.

    So we can say, that Cromagnoids in general have deeper set eyes, which are well below the forehead more often - they are more often robust and they have a lower and weaker nasal root, "bent" nose, all this plays in for the phenomenon you most likely meant.

    Yes I´ve seen those pics before (even do I can´t see them now for some reason).
    Well, just copy the link and open it in a new window probably.

    What do you label the Early Yamnaya people as? Would they fit as some CM type or more towards Lundman´s Trönder?
    They were mostly robust Nordoid and Cromagnoid, more robust than the Central European groups overall, but also with a Mediterranid, more gracile component. In the end quite a similar variation as further West and a great continuity of basically Nordoid-Cromagoid forms with stronger or weaker Mediterranid influences here and there for most of the period in most of Europe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Well, just copy the link and open it in a new window probably.
    Doesn´t seem to work, at least not on my computer.

    They were mostly robust Nordoid and Cromagnoid, more robust than the Central European groups overall, but also with a Mediterranid, more gracile component. In the end quite a similar variation as further West and a great continuity of basically Nordoid-Cromagoid forms with stronger or weaker Mediterranid influences here and there for most of the period in most of Europe.
    How do you spot these Mediterranid traits? Do they differ any from the average Nordid skull?

    How about Coon´s "Corded type"? Are the Corded Ware Nordoid skulls by any chance equivalent too the so called Corded type (used by Coon?)? If so, what traits do differ them from for example Göta?

    Lots of stupid questions.

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