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Thread: The Antichrist, Nietzsche. Book Study.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Antichrist, Nietzsche. Book Study. The Preface

    I now want to look very closely at the Preface to The Antichrist [A].

    My method is this; to take the text sequentially, and largely on face value.
    We are about to embark upon the art of reading.

    Everyone at this point should have a copy of the Preface to A in front of him or her; I really believe that this repays intense study.

    My own response to the Preface is thus;

    As has already been said, Nietzsche [N] addresses himself to the 'few' - a few who may not even [yet] exist!
    [He will call these few by the semi-mythical name of Hyperboreans in the next section].

    In this Preface N describes what these few must be like - this is very important. They are, in a nutshell, to be ABOVE [supra] 'mere' humanity. They are therefore 'superhuman', as we know.

    N has supreme CONTEMPT for 'mere humanity', i.e., for his contempories. [It is the politics and PETTY nationalism of his contemporaries that he objects to, rather than to politics per se; indeed we know that he wants Grand Politics in the future].

    He feels certain though, that in the future, 'the day after tomorrow', he will have readers who WILL understand him [unlike his contemporaries who largely ignore his work].
    It is those readers [rather than N] who are "born posthumously" [i.e., they will be born after the writing of A] - this is a typical Nietzschean 'twist'.

    The few, IF they exist today [or in 1888 when N is writing], are those who understand his Thus Spake Zarathustra [TSZ].

    They will be ruthlessly honest, be friends of solitude, be indifferent to gain or lack, will honour and love themselves, be completely free unto themselves, and in short, be ridiculously courageous.

    They will also have clarified their senses and their consciences.

    They will have passed through rites of initiation [labyrinth, seven solitudes].

    They will personify the Grand Style [this is best seen in Imperial Rome].


    Points to look at;

    'The forbidden'; where does Holocaust revisionism figure here?

    What is grand Style?

    Initiation - how imporant is this?

    "Tomorrow belongs to me" - who else coined this?

    Do we need to read [and understand] TSZ before A?
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, May 3rd, 2004 at 06:18 PM. Reason: split thread
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Ederico's Avatar
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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried Augustus
    What about the following:



    What do you think about Nietzsche's attacks against nationalism? I have some thoughts of my own on this, but I'd like to hear what others think first.
    One would have to question the dynamic of Nietzsche's [N] attack and on what premises it is based. I believe and seem to understand that the attack on Nationalism was either grounded on its Populistic and Collectivist approach or rather it was Nietzsche's attack on Society as a result of his anti-Social attitudes.

    I believe that an Elitist Nationalism would have very much appealed to Nietzsche. Nietzsche regarded himself as a "Good European", and as such transcended the mere National divisions within Europe. Perhaps a European Nationalism spearheaded by a select few, an Elite force of Individuals, the best of the racial stock, could have appealed to Nietzsche.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, May 6th, 2004 at 06:04 PM. Reason: split thread

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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried Augustus
    More or less agreed, but Nietzsche did not oppose every collective; in fact, he was in favour of the caste system and birth privileges. I think this opens up possibilities for a racialist adaptation of Nietzscheanism.
    Absolutely. Nietzsche was undoubtedly a racialist. His works are permeated by this concept but I contend that racialism is not synoymous with nationalism per se, particularly the petty state nationalisms of nineteenth century European politics.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, May 6th, 2004 at 06:06 PM. Reason: split thread

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Section 1

    Nietzsche is here trying to create a distance between a noble and a base conception of things.

    Going on to section one we see that N continues to hammer this out; here the few and their antithesis, 'mere humanity' [or superhumanity vs. humanity] are characterised.
    The former are 'Hyperboreans', and the latter are 'Modern men'.

    The problem for the Hyperboreans has been a lack of direction, and a resultant 'gloomy fatalism'.

    This is due to the tremendous tension that has built up in them as they, in tremendous isolation, have accumulated an abundance of un-extended power.

    We are reminded of the bow-string metaphor that Nietzsche uses in the Preface to his earlier book 'Beyond Good and Evil', where the bow string is described as being pulled back ever tauter, but has yet to have a target at which to fire its arrow.

    However, the Hyperboreans NEEDED to be cut off from Modern men for this period of their frustration, because Modern man's poisonous pacifism, compromise, 'big-hearted' tolerance and weak resignation, risked infecting them.

    But the Hyperborean few have finally found their way out of the 'labyrinth' of thousands of years; now they need direction.



    The mythos of the labyrinth is very important for N; it provides a commentary for the process of his own philosophical initiation.
    But initiation for what?
    What is the goal?
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, May 4th, 2004 at 12:26 PM. Reason: split thread
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Section 2

    Having identified the lack, Neitzsche now gives the necessary direction - that 'yes, no, straight line and a goal'.

    He outlines the polarity of 'good and bad'; this is an important criterion, as we know from his earlier book, the Genealogy of Morals, that 'good and bad' is the polarity of the Nobility, while the alternative criterion of 'good and evil' is the the criterion of Slave Morality.
    As he says there, 'beyond good and evil' [i.e., slave morality] does NOT mean 'beyond good and bad' [i.e., Master Morality].
    Indeed, it is that very 'master morality' which N now brusquely delineates in this section of the Antichrist, referring to it ironically as "our humanity".

    The first principle of this master 'morality' must be the elimination of the weak and the ill-constituted [reminding us Spartan Eugenics].

    What is 'good' to the few, to the Hyperboreans, to the superhumans?
    What is their happiness?
    Answer - The increase in the Will to Power; the over-coming thereby of any resistance; also War and Ruthless amoral efficiency.

    The Renaissance is touched on as a marker - Renaissance 'virtu', as Machiavelli has it in his Prince.

    In contrast to this, N compares the 'bad', where weakness, sordid contentment, pacifism, moralising virtuousness, and sympathy for the wretched is found.

    All these 'bad', slavish features are TYPIFIED by Christianity.

    So the direction is clear; the few must fight against all that is 'bad', base, weak and ... Christian.

    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, April 15th, 2004 at 06:45 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Ederico's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Antichrist, Nietzsche. Book Study.

    Great analysis Moody.
    Last edited by Ederico Figallo; Thursday, April 15th, 2004 at 06:56 PM.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: The Antichrist, Nietzsche. Book Study.

    Thank Wotan that someone like the Hyperborean actually understands this project [but then with a name like that he should!].

    It is, as he said, a work of ANALYSIS; my use of 'constructive' points to that understanding.

    HERE, on the Book Study, we are going through the named book line-by-line, and looking at what was ACTUALLY said, rather than what we think was said, or what someone else said was said etc.,
    That's why each book study will have links to the book in question prominantly displayed.
    It is ALL about the book, and nothing about the egos of Skadi posters.

    I would hope that most will know what Nietzsche means when he refers to Christianity. He is referring to the Christianity promulgated by the Church through such teachings as that of Jesus Christ and Saint Paul.

    In the important text [for Christians] called the 'New Testament', we find such things as the Sermon on the Mount which have been hugely influential. This includes such sentiments as;

    "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Belssed be they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
    Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth ...
    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy ...
    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God".

    Such a teaching is the antithesis to Nietzsche's Master Morality which says that the weak, the meek and the 'poor in spirit' should be mercilessly eliminated by the strong, the noble and the great in spirit!

    As I said, this is about following Nietzsche's argument - and more generally, about following arguments per se; good discipline.
    It is about STAYING ON TOPIC!

    Link to a Christian 'Sermon on Humility';
    http://www.thisischurch.com/sermon/humility.htm

    Christian Humility
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, May 3rd, 2004 at 06:25 PM. Reason: split thread
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: The Antichrist, Nietzsche. Book Study.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Thank Wotan
    :eyes Im not even commenting on that!

    It is, as he said, a work of ANALYSIS; my use of 'constructive' points to that understanding.
    So this is a thread about "ANALYSIS" yet certain analysis are not allowed. Ho hum! :eyes

    It is ALL about the book, and nothing about the egos of Skadi posters.
    Nice spin Moody. I'm clearly debating Nietzsche's "analysis" on Christianity. You're the one trying to spin this into some ego-fest.

    I would hope that most will know what Nietzsche means when he refers to Christianity. He is referring to the Christianity promulgated by the Church through such teachings as that of Jesus Christ and Saint Paul.
    Nice white horse Moody! :eyes

    Christianity at its heart are the teachings of Jesus Christ and St. Paul. I like to know of a Christianity without the teachings of Jesus Christ.

    In the important text [for Christians] called the 'New Testament', we find such things as the Sermon on the Mount which have been hugely influential. This includes such sentiments as;

    "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Belssed be they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
    Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth ...
    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy ...
    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God".

    Such a teaching is the antithesis to Nietzsche's Master Morality which says that the weak, the meek and the 'poor in spirit' should be mercilessly eliminated by the strong, the noble and the great in spirit!
    And yet history has proven otherwise. :eyes

    As I said, this is about following Nietzsche's argument - and more generally, about following arguments per se; good discipline.
    It is about STAYING ON TOPIC!
    You mentioned Christianity Moody, and so I AM STAYING ON TOPIC! So nice try at white horsing here! :eyes
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, May 3rd, 2004 at 06:27 PM. Reason: split thread

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    Post Re: The Antichrist, Nietzsche. Book Study.

    And yet history has proven otherwise.
    The White Man's nature could never yield entirely to these teachings, indeed.

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    Post Re: The Antichrist, Nietzsche. Book Study.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried Augustus
    The White Man's nature could never yield entirely to these teachings, indeed.
    ROTFL! Yeah.........Europe wasn't Christian for a 1000 years. :eyes

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