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Thread: Christo-Heathenry?

  1. #21
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    i've an acquaintance who thinks along the same lines as you, Koos. He refers to himself as a "Christianized Barbarian", a very self-sufficient and very Germanic fellow. Holds "Christ the Conqueror" as Lord of Lords but also somewhat venerates the Norse gods. For instance, his nightly prayers are to Odin: "Wotan grant me the strength to swing my axe with my left arm should my right become tired or injured". He says them in German. Now i don't know if he actually venerates them as sort of demi-Gods, ideal representations of human characteristics, or simply because his Folk venerated them so he too raises his horn to them. I dunno, he himself is a bit foggy or vague on the subject.

    He did, however, ask me to recommend him some books for his boys that would teach them about the Norse way.
    Tequila Sunrise

  2. #22
    Senior Member Papa Koos's Avatar
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    Smile Koos the Barbarian!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSmokyGod
    i've an acquaintance who thinks along the same lines as you, Koos. He refers to himself as a "Christianized Barbarian", a very self-sufficient and very Germanic fellow. Holds "Christ the Conqueror" as Lord of Lords but also somewhat venerates the Norse gods. For instance, his nightly prayers are to Odin: "Wotan grant me the strength to swing my axe with my left arm should my right become tired or injured". He says them in German. Now i don't know if he actually venerates them as sort of demi-Gods, ideal representations of human characteristics, or simply because his Folk venerated them so he too raises his horn to them. I dunno, he himself is a bit foggy or vague on the subject.

    He did, however, ask me to recommend him some books for his boys that would teach them about the Norse way.
    My lovely civilised wife would most likely put me in the "Christianised Barbarian" catagory but I wouldn't
    go that far. I believe in only one God, so when I pray, listen, and commune it is to & with the Triune God.
    I don't think it's too strange to love my ancestors and respect their religion, which I do very much.
    Thanks for your good-natured approach to this subject, SmokyGod.

  3. #23
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    I judge a man by his faithfulness to his blood and by his character, i couldn't care less which god he bows before.
    Tequila Sunrise

  4. #24
    Senior Member Papa Koos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSmokyGod
    I judge a man by his faithfulness to his blood and by his character, i couldn't care less which god he bows before.
    I know you do brother. That's why it's going to be a great honour to man the ramparts with you when TSHTF (as it surely will & soon).

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    I was discussing this very same thing today with a few of my friends. The Asiatic hordes are chomping at the bit to ride again into Europe and Europe 2 (thats us). The ChiComs are really stepping up their militaristic efforts. It would take a joint Indo-American force to stop them, i think, the Russians can't be trusted to be faithful to our cause. Funny, the Indians were our brethren eons ago and they may be the ones to take up the sword alongside of us when we face extinction at the hands of the Huns.

    I feel as though it should be coming fairly soon.

    so i went shooting today, knocking down some 2-liter soda bottles at 200 with some cheap Golden Tiger 7.62, need better sights on my SKS i decided. Maybe Williams Firesights. In any event, we all need to be ready to fight if and when the Golden Horde saddles up again.

    keep your powder dry, Koos
    Tequila Sunrise

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    Senior Member Edenkoben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koos de la Rey
    IMHO the "sons of God" were heavenly beings (angels?) who procreated with human females. The children of these unions were "giants" among men, the "ones from the eons [ages]" i.e., the ancient ones; and they were humans of "renown"[great fame] though out the earth. I believe that these half divine beings (thus "demi" Edenkoben) lived and ruled with (but above) earthlings for a very long time ~ They, I believe, were the gods & goddesses revered by the Greeks, Teutons, Celts, etc.
    The scriptural quotation is fascinating, but, as is often the case in mystical texts, rather fraught with ambiguity--that is, it admits of more than one correct interpretation (or, perhaps it is vague, that is, doesn't admit of any correct interpretation).

    Given that the text you quote is consonant with the story of Mary's virgin birth, I take it you hold Jesus to be a demi-god as well? Here's the problem with this question: If no, then there's a problem with the definition you're using for "demi." If yes, then (a) there's no reason to hold that Jesus is superior to any other demi-god and (b) this seems to me very far afield from what christianity claims.

    As far as analyzing heathen gods with judeo-christian texts, I'm not convinced that we get any closer to the truth of the matter than if we were to try to account for the 'Ascension of Christ' story by reading the Prose Edda. In other words, you can't measure distance accurately with a piece of cloud, nor reasonably expect rain from a meter stick.

    And, as I've pointed out earlier and elsewhere, there is a circularity to the discussion: to interpret the 'lesser' faith with the scriptures of the 'greater' presumes in the method the hoped-for results.

    Outside of geometry (I offer tentatively), I'm not at all convinced anymore that there is a practical unifying faith theory (hence, I'm skeptical of efforts to shuffle all these faith cards together, for exactly the same reason I reject all this multiculturalism/uniculturalism fudge). But Spinoza's "Ethics" does offer decent, rather geometric account toward a unified theory of the divine--it is a naturalized one, however, not a supernatural one, much as Plato's demi-urgos is a natural, not a supernatural divinity.

    BTW, for whatever my opinion is worth, I admire the substantial work it takes to learn an ancient language and read a text in its original, as you have done. Plato springs to life in ancient Greek and even Kant (who has led me to endless frustration and disappointment when read in English) has a bit of light when read in German. A bit (although his German is beautifully written).

  7. #27
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    Is Christianity not Christo-Heathenry to begin with?
    And I do not see anything wrong with that...

  8. #28
    Senior Member Rev. Jupiter's Avatar
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    Here is the site that used to be at the broken link in the original post:

    http://jeffdiehl.com/the.htm

    Personally, I like this man's interpretation of a dual Christian/pagan spirituality. It makes much more sense from a historical point of view than modern neopagan beliefs that owe their origins more to post-modernist "Free thinking" than any historical expression of our ancestor's religiosity.
    To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage. - Eliphas Lévi

  9. #29
    Senior Member Sciuirse Morrigna's Avatar
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    What a great thread!

    I don't know if I could, or would reconcile Christianity and heathenry into one religion.

    I thionk a lot of the conflict, though, comes from people's changing and reinterpreting of things.

    In modern heathen and pagan religions, people have striven to water them down, make them all warm and fuzzy, and take the blood out.

    Same thing with Christianity.

    I think if people would reas the bible, rather than listen to what others claim it says, they'd get a very different view of what the OT hebrew religion was, and what Christianity is.

    First off, the hebrew religion, which strictly uses the OT books would have little conflict with most people. Yes, they were given a land, conquered it, and were told to slaughter everything and everyone -- which they didn't. Is that so much different from our own histories?

    They were ruled by warrior kings. Again, what is so foreign?

    I know, "But the Jews this, and the Jews that. . ." BIUT, look at the gospels. Jesus lambasted the jews every chance he got for the very things that make them so hated today -- usury and influence peddling. Thjose are the types of things that separate judaism fromt he hebrew religion. Judaism requires the Babylonian talmud to be practiced, and is full of idiocy such as it justifying usury, influence peddling, treating non jews as animals, etc. Christ himself -- their god in flesh!! -- hated this. Did he not go out to fashion himself a whip to return to the temple to kick over tables and run the money changers out of the temple -- usury and influence peddling.

    Some may take objection to the "turn the other cheek" passage. But, if you understand the culture it was written to, being slapped on the right cheek (meaning you were slapped by the other person's left hand) was an insult, not an assault. A more modern way of putting it, would be "If someone spits on your right cheek, turn your left cheek to him and tell him he missed a spot." It is not a call to pacifism, it's a call to not be provoked to foolishness over an insult. It also mocks the one doing the insulting, because it mocks their insult as inadequate (give them the other cheek as well), an unworthy of a response.

    Look at our northman anscestors. Being a valiant warrior was highly regarded, but so was being a poet and statesman. One would look the fool if easily provoked to an emotional response over a mere insult. Victory by outmaneuvering your opponents with words was just as highly prized as doing so with sword and shield.

    Also, if the bible calls people to be pacifists, why would it tell tholse who become Chiristians when they are soldiers to remain soldiers? There is NOTHING in the bible against one defnding their lives or their nations against assault. The distinction between killing and murder is clear, and killing is sanctioned, while murder is not. There are still churches (Church of Christ being one I know of) that still hold being a soldier or policeman as a noble and honorable endeavor. Not so different there, either, eh?

    Not only that, but the book of Revelation tells of the end of time, when Christ comes back, he will slaughter all of his enemies./ Hardly a pacifist.

    "Render unto Caesar what is Caesars." What's the problem with that? Christ was saying, in effect, 'I'm god, what do I care about money?" I can just as easily see Odhinn, Thor, or any of the other Norse/Germanic or Celtic gods saying exactly the same thing -- what do they care about money?

    Christ a warrior chieftan? Christ and his 12 apostles is a direct reference back to king David and his 12 mighty men. Like Christianity or not, Jesus and his 12 mighty men changed the face of the world -- and they did it through what would best be described as statesmanship.

    I have a whole lot less of a problem with Christianity after reading the bible for what it says, rather than listening to what effeminate, pacifistic no-minds tell me it says.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulf View Post
    My best friend is Irish Catholic and he has stated to me many times that he does believe in the existence of his ancestor's gods. "You shall have no gods before me" does not state that a Christian can't believe in or pay homage to other gods. Just, the Christian god is their patron so to speak..

    I don't understand it, but these types of Christians do have my respect.
    As for Old Norse christianity, it doesn't deny the existence of the pagan gods per se, but they do deny their divinity. Rather portraying them as demonic, deliberately turning people away from the light of Christ by trickery, thereby the ancestors cannot be held responsible for not being Christians. That is, unless they were staunchly pagan and refused baptism. Though these are fittingly dealt with accordingly.

    Norse literature has a rich Christian tradition that is actually much more abundant than what we connect with the traditional saga literature. A lot of this is so-called visionary literature that includes some syncretic elements. Where the devil is identified with the midgard serpent etc. and the ideal villain is something of a norse-pagan-chieftain-jewish-sadistic-sex-offender. This last bit is especially prominent in the translations of the martyr legends.

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